Elections Commission Regular Meeting

Wednesday, October 18, 2023

In this page:


    Meeting recording and transcription available below.


    1. Call to Order and Roll Call

      A member of the Commission will state the following (from the adopted 10/19/22 Elections Commission Land Acknowledgment Resolution):

      The San Francisco Elections Commission acknowledges that we are on the unceded ancestral homeland of the Ramaytush Ohlone, who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula.  As the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their traditions, the Ramaytush Ohlone have never ceded, lost, nor forgotten their responsibilities as caretakers of this place, as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory.  As guests, we recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland.  We wish to pay our respects by acknowledging the ancestors and relatives of the Ramaytush Community and affirming their sovereign rights as First Peoples.

    2. General Public Comment

      Public comment on any issue within the Elections Commission’s general jurisdiction that is not covered by another item on this agenda.

    3. Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes

      Elections Commission meeting minutes.


    4. Director’s Report

      Discussion and possible action regarding the Director’s Report.

      Attachments: October Director’s Report.

    5. Commissioners’ Reports

      Discussion and possible action on Commissioners’ reports for topics not covered by another item on this agenda: Meetings with public officials; oversight and observation activities; long-range planning for Commission activities and areas of study; proposed legislation which affects elections; others.

      Attachments: Draft 2022 Commission Annual Report (Jerdonek); Open Source Voting News Item (Jerdonek); Process for Proposed Legislation (Stone); AB1248 Veto Message (Dai).

    6. Agenda Items for Future Meetings

      Discussion and possible action regarding items for future agendas.

    7. Adjournment

    Date & Time

    Wednesday, October 18, 2023
    6:00 pm to 9:00 pm

    City Hall, Room 408

    1 Dr. Carlton B Goodlett Place
    San Francisco, CA 94102
    View location on google maps


    Webinar number (access code): 2660 816 0729
    Webinar password: OctVote (6288683 from video systems)
    Join the meeting


    Access Code: 2660 816 0729 (no password needed for phone)

    October 18, 2023 Regular SF Elections Meeting

    In this video

    1. Call to Order & Roll Call meeting started at: 0:00.09 (6:00 PM)

    2. General Public Comments: 0:04.57

    3. Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes: 0:10.06

    4. Director’s Report: 0:16.28

    5. Commissioners’ Reports:  0:37.19

    5a. Public Comments: 1:28.51

    6. Agenda Items for Future Meetings:1:40.05         

    7. Adjournment: 1:41.14 (7:42 PM)


    18th 2023 regular meeting of the San Francisco elections commission I'm the president Robin Stone The Time Is Now 6

    pm and I call the meeting to order before we proceed further I would like to ask commission secretary Marissa

    Davis to briefly explain some procedures for participating in today's

    meeting thank you president Stone the minutes of this meeting will refect reflect that this meeting is being held

    in person at City Hall Room 408 one Dr Carlton be goodlet place in San

    Francisco 94102 and remotely via webx as authorized by the elections

    commission's February 15 2023 vote members of the public May attend the meeting to observe and provide public

    comment either at the physical meeting location or remotely details and instructions for participating remotely

    are listed on the commission's website and on today's meeting agenda public

    comment will be available on each item on this agenda each member of the public will be allowed three minutes to speak

    six minutes if you are on the line with an interpreter when providing a public comment you are encouraged to state your

    name clearly once your three minutes have expired staff will thank you and you will be muted please address your

    comments to the entire commission and do not to a specific individual while

    providing public comment remotely please ensure you are in a quiet location when

    joining by phone you will hear a beep when you are connected to the meeting you will be automatically muted and in

    listening mode only to make a public comment dial Star three to raise your hand and when your item of Interest

    comes up you will be added to the public comment line you will hear you have

    raised your hand to ask a question please wait until the host calls on you the line will be silent as you wait your

    turn to speak if at any time you change your mind and wish to withdraw your yourself from public comment line press

    star three again you will hear the system say you have lowered your hand

    when joining by WebEx or a web browser make sure the participant side panel is showing by clicking on the participants

    icon at the bottom of the list of attendees is a small button or icon that

    looks like a hand press the hand icon to raise your hand you will be unmuted when

    it is time for you to comment when you are done with your comment click the hand icon again to lower your hand in

    addition to participating in real time interested persons are encouraged to participate in this meeting by

    submitting public comment in writing by 12:00 pm on the day of the meeting to

    elections. commmission sfgov.org it will be shared with the

    commission after this meeting has concluded and will be included in part of the official meeting file thank you

    president Stone thank you secretary Davis will you please proceed with item

    one commission roll call yes president Stone present vice president

    jonic here commissioner bernh holes here commissioner Dy here commissioner

    Hayden Crowley commissioner loli she's absent today and commissioner

    Parker here president stone with six members of the uh our present and accounted for it

    you have a quorum excellent and I will hand it over to commissioner Hayden Crowley to State the uh elections

    commission's land acknowledgement resolution as adopted on October 19th

    2022 thank you president Stone I think you're

    muted there we go thank you president Stone the San Francisco elections

    commission acknowledges that we are on on the unseated ancestral homeland of the ritus alone who are the original

    inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula as the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their

    Traditions the Rhimes rimus aloney have never seeded lost nor forgotten their

    responsibilities as caretakers of this place as well as for All Peoples who reside in their traditional territory as

    guests we recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional Homeland we wish to pay our respects by

    acknowledging the ancestors and relatives of the rimos community and affirming their Sovereign rights as

    First Peoples thank you commissioner Hayden Crowley and with that we'll move to item number two general public

    comment public comment on any issue within the elections commission's General jurisdiction that is not covered by another item on this

    agenda am I turned on here yes yeah okay um hi there alen burdell District 8 um

    I'm here today to ask you to do two things um number one bring the fierce committee to a close number two uh Write

    a brief memo to the Board of Supervisors to share what you learned during the redistrict and reform hearings that

    you've had why bring Fierce committee to a close well the in in his August 18th

    article in the chronicle JD Morris wrote redistricting can have longlasting consequences the district boundaries

    influence who is elected to the Board of Supervisors therefore helping determine

    whether the body leans Progressive or whether the body leans

    moderate why is the unelected oversight body of our Department of Elections so

    highly involved in something so fundamentally political as redistricting we've heard from this

    Fierce committee that we can't guarant guarantee free and fair elections if we don't have Fair representation at our

    Board of Supervisors but nothing about guaranteeing Fair representation at our

    Board of Supervisors appears in the charter amendment that established this oversight body 20 years ago and nothing

    appears in the what we do section of your website to suggest you have anything to do with guaranteeing Fair

    representation at the Board of Supervisors no none of that appears because your

    role is centered around policymaking to ensure free and fair elections here in

    San Francisco the redistricting conversation belongs at our Board of

    Supervisors not here that's why La has a committee set up at their city council

    and its sole purpose is redistricting reform show me another

    municipality between the Pacific and the Atlantic that has a Department of

    Elections oversight body that's pushing a redistricting Charter Amendment at

    their city council you cannot do that because it does not exist there's not

    one I challenge you I challenge you to present that this commission did the

    right thing back in April of 22 when it rebuffed pressure from commissioner Cynthia D to re withdraw its

    redistricting task force members this commission again did the right thing when it rebuffed the pressure from

    commissioner D to can our excellent uh director and now it's time to do the

    right thing once again close this Fierce committee and send a brief redistricting

    reform member to the Board of Supervisors you all in closing you all

    clearly from my review of meetings being here you all want to

    do the right thing and you just need I'm just going to say it some

    backbone to push back on some of the political pressure that's been brought to

    this thank you okay we have some participants

    online okay you're unmuted Kelly you want

    I have no comments at this point yeah okay thank

    you Lauren do you have a

    comment Lauren can you hear me

    me hi I don't know if you can we can hear you we can hear you oh I

    I hadn't raised my hand or unmuted so I don't know what happened yeah sorry about that are you

    ready to go I don't have a comment you don't have a comment okay thank

    you okay thank you secretary Davis um we will now move to agenda item number

    three approval of previous meeting minutes discussion and possible action on previous elections commission meeting

    minutes and I will open the floor secretary

    the and just a reminder you can use the um the screen to raise your hand and I will

    go in the order commissioner D thank you president Stone um I had

    sent a number of um suggested edits just because there were a a number of typos

    and um sentences that I felt needed clarification so I have uh pass that

    along to um uh to secretary Davis and she has shared it with the other

    Commissioners I I might suggest that we delay voting on this to give everyone a

    chance to take a look at that and they may have additional

    changes thank you commissioner D any other I don't see any other hands raised

    point of clarification uh you gave edits and are they're not in this particular

    document so they will be in a future sure one I'm sorry it's in your email oh

    it's in my email okay

    okay um I can respond to the to the proposal or the proposed uh process from

    commissioner D um we haven't been voting on minutes we've just been kind of

    consensus uh I have not had the chance to look at your specific feedback but if

    they're just typos and points of clarification I don't necessarily know if we need to have like a formal vote on

    it but I'm open to other Commissioners uh feedback if they would like to see another draft that's fine as

    well if there's an area where I feel adamantly different from commissioner D

    I'm sure that would make sense for us to bring it again but I'm sure that that it's a pretty straightforward um does

    any commissioner have any strong feelings one way or

    another um

    commissioner Hayden Crowley I'm I'm just not sure because I'm looking at it right now

    and um I just like some there's a couple things that are just jumping out at me

    here that I'm just not sure about um can you just provide a little bit of

    um Insight because I'm looking at the I'm looking at the draft on my phone which is not the best place to be

    looking at it um but they're not done with um you know with the with where you

    can see the changes but maybe maybe they are if I were looking at it on my computer but on

    my phone it's not so and I mean if they're really like just typos I have no

    problem approving the minutes but if there's anything substantive okay well why don't we just

    for the sake of moving forward I'm happy to give it another month for folks to

    review um unless commissioner Hayden Crowley you disagree or is the point

    you're making that um that you'd like me to use some discretion or judgment about

    the edits whether they're substantive or not once I've had the chance to review and if they are more substantive bring

    them to the commission at the next meeting or if they're not then we can just move forward I'd be happy to have

    you take the exercise judgment okay um just other do other Commissioners have

    any um thank you for the feedback um any other Commissioners want to weigh

    in commissioner Parker sorry um I'm seeing just one

    comment is that right um no actually uh if you look at

    it with the with the um uh all edits you

    you will see I made some direct edits and then I put one comment but a lot of

    is just again kind of clarifying things like sometimes it wasn't clear whether sentences were referring to a program a

    policy or whatever so I added details I found it hard to understand personally

    um you know looking at my notes so that's why I I made those suggested edits so sorry but yeah I think it would

    be great if everyone just has a chance to take a look at it I just had a chance to submit it a little bit before the

    meeting uh Parker did you have additional thoughts you wanted to make um I just when I was doing it in the um

    when I was just viewing it in the email I couldn't see all of those and so I just I just opened up and word and now I see that there are more because if there

    was just the one common I was like that's fine just do it but um I'm waiting or whatever okay uh

    commissioner D was there more you wanted to say okay uh Commissioners uh

    commissioner burol or vice president jonic I it sounds sounds like maybe you

    don't have comments but wanted to give you the opportunity in case you

    do yes vice president deronic yes so I um I'm okay with

    um you know giving you the discretion if if there's nothing substantive if there's some point of disagreement it

    might be worth bringing it back but um if if there

    is no disagreement then doesn't seem like we need to bring it back next

    month thanks for the feedback

    Okay Hand isn't T correct okay okay it sounds like there's

    General consensus so just to clar make sure we're all on the same page um I will take a look at commissioner D's

    feedback thank you for sending that over um if there are material

    edits uh that I deem would be worthy of commissioner uh additional

    commissioner feedback or discussion I'll do that um and I will focus specifically on anything that goes outside the bounds

    of you know grammar or clarification or typos um let's move to public

    comment no public comment great um then let's move to

    agenda item number four the director's report discussion and possible action regarding the director's report and I

    will hand it over to director John erns thank you president Stone so I guess the

    biggest draw on the direct support so the uh selection process for the or the Public's part in

    selecting completing the survey to select a sticker design ended yesterday and the uh the uh top three sticker

    designs will be announced next Thursday on the 26th um so uh the survey has been closed

    um I think we had around 9,000 9 to 10,000 uh surveys submitted so uh pretty

    good pretty good uh response to it certainly a lot of effort on the Department's side a lot of folks in the

    department put a lot of really good work and lot of good energy into the sticker uh process sticker design and

    competition process so want to certainly call out our deputy director Natalia Kina who put a lot of time and was the

    lead on the project and then many other folks in the department as well so uh and then also I guess what's different

    in this report than others I did at the request of President Stone provide some information on the development of the

    risk risk risk limiting auditing uh program that the department and the department of Technology are developing

    uh it's an open source tool so it'll be one that we'll we'll Post online when it's finished uh we've got gone through

    a few iterations not having an election this November actually uh delayed

    progress a bit because we couldn't test it again and with with live ballots uh but what's interesting and good is that

    Professor Stark at UC Berkeley uh is developing I guess the math around statist the statistics

    around uh combining both uh poing Place ballots and vote by mail ballots within

    the same audit uh previously only the cards that were uh

    imprinted with an ID at the time of tabulation and there's this imprint and I I need to say too this imprinting of

    an ID on the cards during tabulation is not voter specific so we have no idea where these cards came from it's the the

    cards have been pulled from the envelopes they've been sorted uh for for

    processing so there's no way to tie an imprint to a specific voter so it

    happens in the vote by mail ballot processing but at the polling places there is no imprinting that occurred uh

    so it was there was a challenge mathematically to combine the two categories of ballots in the same risk

    limiting auditing because they required two different approaches to to doing an audit but it looks like we'll be able

    Professor Starks now his his next contribution will be uh that we actually will be able to include both categories

    of of cards uh which will be unique I'm not I'm not aware if this happening anywhere else and uh I I gave a really

    high level uh synopsis I wasn't trying to give a lot of detail uh but if you want to know information I can certainly

    follow with with another synopsis or or memo um and other than that I can take any questions from the commission so

    thank you director Arns folks can feel free to start raising their hands and I'll just go in

    order vice president Jordon okay uh thank you dor HS for your report and for the addendum um just have a some

    questions about like three different categories um first on the March election do you how many elect measures

    so far are there for the local and state that are confirmed one state one state yeah

    there's one one I guess District I think ethics commission has a a measure going on the

    ballot and so yeah so there's one somewhat of a district measure I

    guess U from outside the the legislative process and I don't know if anything

    else has passed yet I don't so I don't there's not a there's not a number that I can get to you okay what's the cut off

    or what's the data which you'll know for sure I'm sorry what is the data which you'll know for sure uh down November or

    December uh 1st 95 days prior to election day okay thanks and then on the

    risk climing audit stuff I have a few questions um is there some kind of a p

    informational page about like basically what happened in the for the November 2022 audit kind of like the result of

    the audit and a retrospective or something not formally no

    uh I can I can I can look for something that uh we can provide like you know how

    many ballots were checked and things like that yeah I get the information and then um for the work you're doing going

    forward I I know it's a joint thing with the Department of technology is there money allocated to the project or is it

    more pro bono work that's being done no so the open source funding that the city

    provided uh a couple years ago has been funding the development of this tool

    about how much money is it uh how much is left yeah around $100,000 I think it

    is okay and then on the point about the imprinting of the IDS do you know um are

    there any like next Generation voting systems that or are I guess I'll just say are there any voting systems out in

    the world that do imprint the poing place ones or I don't know you don't know okay and then on the I voted sticker um

    had a few question the sticker contest had a few questions for next week are you going to be releasing the number of

    selections for each choice or you just going to be announcing the winners uh I don't I personally have not

    planned on release releasing but I'm sure we will uh the the focus has been really on the sticker designs but yeah

    we could provide the information okay because I one of the things is like at the last meeting IID asked if you're

    going to be um like what voting method was going to be used for deciding the the winning contest or winning design

    and are you are you doing it based on just the highest number of selections or

    or were you going to just that would be one of the inputs into deciding the winner that will be

    the so we're using survey bonkey then also any hard copies that were submitted hard copy yeah yeah I think um if I had

    known it sounds kind of like it's morally a vote you're just counting up

    the choices but it it seems like it would have um been a very good opportunity use rank Choice voting like

    not just from the perspective of seeing um who the winner is but also in terms of educating people about you know how

    rank TR voting works because I know like you know one two of the sticker designs both had parrots so maybe the

    parrot lovers will be splitting their their support across two selections but

    um I know I know there are different online platforms for doing rank Choice

    voting votes online and they they do the tab ation so it's something to think about for a future contest if you have

    it so um that's all I had thank you thank you vice president jonic and I

    apologize this is a point of privilege would you mind repeating the question that you had asked like the first question you had asked I was distracted

    and I missed it and I want to about the measures the beginning the first question I don't recall what it was

    oh I had asked how many um state and local measures there would be on the

    ballot on in March and when he would know for sure okay thank you and what was the answer just one state so far and

    then one local ethics commission thank you I appreciate it and then he would know on December 1st thank you I

    appreciate everyone taking that um moment to uh answer my

    question commissioner Parker um I don't actually have any

    questions um on your report but I did just want to acknowledge you know a few things like you know congratulations on

    the CI CIO 100 award um and I appreciated the attachment the description of the work that's you know

    um helpful to learn about so thank you for taking the time to share that with us um and it's exciting that you'll be

    able to share this with other jurisdictions that it's Innovative work so I really appreciate that I really

    enjoyed the sticker designs it was fun to look at those um and see some enthusiasm around that um um I also uh

    in in terms of access and you know um the approach that you all are taking for

    the seasonal positions the One-Stop shop for the hiring being all in one day um

    that also feels you know really Innovative and accessible so I really appreciate that um I did check out the

    eata tool a bunch and kind of and then I also went back out to the the regular elections page um the homepage to see if

    that was still easy to find if I was just going to the homepage and was it was very easy to navigate um and I

    really appreciate the transparency you know as a voter not just as a commissioner but um being able to find

    all that information really easy easily so I appreciate that um and actually I lied I have one little question um

    related do you have any sense of the budget cuts that we're going to see I know you haven't received um you said

    December is when you'd be receiving more Direction around cuts to make midyear do

    you have any more sense of what that might look like not yet we're still in conversation with the mayor's office so

    uh I think I indicated it'll be a 3% the mayor forward a 3% cut for departments uh that would be like around

    $800,000 I think from our our budget if we were to hit 3% I don't know really that's that's feasible going into a

    presidential primary election so we're having that conversation with the mayor's office still uh I don't so I

    don't have a number to to share with you and they're just doing like they're recommending 3% flat across all

    departments not taking a more Nuance approach to some things should or shouldn't be cut they're just saying 3%

    that's their target across the city yeah got it okay yeah that seems hard to do

    in a in an election you're like we've got ahead okay thank you yeah and I actually thought you were going to bring up the high school ambassador program

    and you didn't I know I always do and I appreciated seeing the recognition that was done at City Hall for that so won't

    disappoint I did read that I was appreciative of it I just thought I'd focus on other things this time

    thank you commissioner Parker do we have additional

    hands commissioner Dy commissioner Hayden Crowley commissioner bur holes

    any commissioner D sure I'll make a few comments although most of my questions have already been asked um yeah I

    enjoyed the the sticker designs it was a nice variety um but but I did miss the

    opportunity to do a rank Choice vote because there were three that I liked and I would have liked to just rank them

    one two and three and I never I wrote it for my favorite and I didn't get around to I was thinking oh I should vote

    tomorrow for my second favorite and vote again for the third favorite so um I'm curious was there um any discussion in

    your team that you know kind of came up with this design on on the voting method because it does seem like the voting

    method that was used is like what's used a lot on social media which is all about how many of my friends can I get to vote

    for my design as opposed to you know a traditional

    election well the mechanism that we knew we could use was Survey Monkey uh and that was generic and uh it's not

    necessarily a vote per se and so that was really what was on our minds going

    into this we weren't considering actually a rank Choice voting uh contest for the stickers at the start okay

    um as vice president jonic said we we always look for opportunities to to educate the public might have been fun

    to do it with a sticker contest but um I had some question on the higher math uh

    so I I got that there's a different process that was needed to to look at the in-person votes versus the the vote

    by mail and that had to do with whether there was a number imprinted or not um but I didn't

    get I I was trying to understand what that higher math would be I mean we know that the vast majority of people are

    voting by mail now and there's a smaller very small percentage that vote in person

    and that would seem like that would naturally work out just on the you know

    it would be weighted by the number of of vote by mail ballots and the total number of in-person ballots what can you

    can you give me a sense of of what why there was a you know comp Le Lex mathematics that that that were needed

    for Professor to weigh in on because the cards from the polling

    places cannot be enumerated and brought into an equation as well as or as easily

    as the vote by mail ballots can because they're imprinted they're enumerated from the scanners and so to to do the

    math you need to identify specific cards and to pull specific cards you have to identify them in some manner uh pulling

    Place cards when they're when they're cast uh I mean they're they're pulled from the bins they're put into bags or

    put into boxes they come out at the polling at the at the process the warehouse uh they do it goes to the

    canvas so there's there's many opportunities where the cards would be shuffled and they wouldn't be in the same order that uh that they were

    processed and so somehow there has to be a wayed to capture not a specific card

    but the the potential U likelihood of the results at the pulling place is

    being correct and that's where the math comes in okay so it has to do with being able to identify the specific ballot

    cards and how well and for the polling place cards how how to include cards

    that cannot be identified right okay so it's probably a probability kind of

    right all right thank you commissioner Hayden growley thank

    you uh president Stone um thank you again uh director AR for um your report

    and for all of your accomplishments um I well I just want to comment on the

    request about the rank Choice voting uh for the sticker program well I think it's an

    intriguing idea I just want to remind our commissioners we need to be mindful about budget we're looking at a 3 to 5%

    cut and when you add a level like that um that tends to add money and resources

    so I I hesitate to be like the one that you know I don't like to discourage

    great ideas because I do think it's a good idea but we also need to think in tandem about budget where things have to

    be cut we don't need to be looking at additional unfunded

    mandates thank you commissioner Hayden Crowley um I think everyone who wanted

    to had the chance I'll jump in on um on a couple of

    items uh a few areas of um that I are

    quicker wanted to call out I was excited to see the um the community input incorporated into

    the director's report and into some of the Outreach planning I think that's really great I think that incorporates some of the stuff that we have been

    talking about on this body um recently as well um so getting some feed back

    into how the department is doing Outreach from the folks who are out there in the community so thank you for

    that um I too was going to ask about the budget cuts uh I am very concerned about

    what the department has in front of it um in 20124 and the idea of cutting 3%

    seems pretty significant um so please do keep us surprised of what that would what that would mean um and I imagine

    you don't want to share anything before you actually know but um as soon as you do know it it would be great to get some

    details um and I know that there was also a lot of back and forth when we went through the budget process earlier

    this year um where you know the mayor's office had asked a lot you know again a

    lot of departments to cut back we were able to kind of you and your team were able to kind of retain most of what you

    had wanted um and so I again assume you can't comment on this be yet um but do

    you have hope that that might be the same situation this time around knowing that we have a presidential election and

    um much to do ahead of that do you anticipate it to be the same sort of approach from the mayor's office that

    will retain the funding for that department or do you think it will be there will be some areas of cut even if

    it isn't 3% until we're done it's hard to really make a statement I figured you would say

    that uh uh but the mayor's office

    understands the Department's Mission the mayor's office has never been has never sought to to diminish the Department's

    ability to to to fulfill its Mission and I think that'll be the case uh in this but current budget situation as well

    good glad to hear that um okay so we'll we'll definitely look to hear more about

    that in the November meeting as well um I also wanted to say thank you for

    putting together the one sheeter obviously ly uh not not always ideal to

    have the commission asking you do additional work uh but I I really appreciate you doing this because I

    think it's a great um it's a great thing for a to you know the department to be

    able to showcase the good work it's doing B offer the public transparency into that and C um explain a little bit

    more give more insight from the Department's perspective so I think this is really great and as these things come up I think it should be continue to be a

    practice that um you know when there's when there's a big um announcement of some kind or an award it would be great

    to be able to showcase the work of the department in that way so thank you for doing that extra work around that um I

    also was very excited about the E data the dashboard so great for transparency

    particularly around some of the priorities that we've established as a commission uh and so I I'm excited to

    dig in even more um and then I wanted to just make one last comment about the I

    vote Ved actually two comments about the I voted contest um I appreciated you

    acknowledging your team uh and specifically Natalia I think is who you said was spearheading it so big thank

    you to her as well um doing something totally new lots of good learning uh and

    I do think perhaps maybe there is a middle ground in the future of finding a free tool um that could potentially do

    rank Choice um as an option I think you know we do get the feed or I personally

    get the feedback um I think we've talked about this before on the commission that some folks feel that there is a learning

    curve with rank Choice voting in the city and so something like uh a a fun

    idea such as the I I voted sticker contest could be a cool educational tool so perhaps um perhaps future election

    cycles that could be something worth exploring um as a as a free like a free tool that wouldn't add additional uh

    costs um but I think it's really great as a first year I'm really excited I voted I also saw the awesome um signs

    downstairs in front of the department if you haven't all seen it it's great I was taking lots of selfies and photos in

    front of it um so thank you to the department awesome great stuff and I'm really excited about all the input

    you've been getting as well um okay that's all for me did anyone have any last thoughts before we

    move to uh to public comment okay let's move to public


    no public comment should we give folks a we'll wait a beat still

    nothing all right that closes out agenda item number four we'll move to agenda item number five commissioner reports

    discussion and possible action and Commissioners reports for topics not covered by another item on this agenda meetings with public officials over

    oversight and observation activities longrange planning for commission activities in areas of study proposed legislation with which affect elections

    and others um let's start with vice president jonic who can run through um

    his his specific items and then I'll hand it over to commissioner D and then I will finish out on mine um and if

    folks have additional items and they're surely welcome to raise their hands vice

    president thank you president stone I have a few things to mention the first is there there two documents I included

    in the packet today the first is what I have so far with the the draft annual

    report for 2022 and at the last meeting I said I would provide a draft um it's it's not

    complete yet but I wanted you to see what I have so far and just a lot happened in that year so there's a lot

    of stuff to compile but if anyone has any um you know feedback to me about what you'd like me to be sure to include

    just let me know and then secondly I had a short document to share some news that

    happened in September which is the state of New Hampshire certified um voting

    works' open source voting system for use starting in March 2024 so that would be the November 2024

    election there so I thought that was interest of interest to us because there are some similarities to um what we were

    hoping to do with our policy and in New Hampshire that the vendor worked with

    the state to um develop some customizations that to meet the state's specific needs and they did that at no

    cost to the state and um so perhaps you know the department could

    reach out to New Hampshire to learn more about what that collaboration look like because we have similar goals

    here and then lastly um earlier in the year we had had a guest speaker

    Professor Alex Holderman from the University of Michigan and he spoke to the commission about a a vulnerability

    he had found in the Dominion voting system that affected Us in the November 20222

    election and one of the things that came up in that discussion was this idea of having a way for security researchers

    to contact the city if they find a vulnerability because Professor halderman had emailed the department but

    um didn't get a response back so during that discussion um we had talked about

    the idea of um reaching out to the city's Chief Information Security Officer Michael

    maxman and um I finally got around to doing that and so I'm going to be meeting with him and commissioner

    bernholz is also going to be meeting as well and we had the we had actually the

    two of us had actually met with him four years ago about another security issue so hopefully that'll be happening in the

    next couple weeks or so that's all thank you thank you vice

    president jonic um commiss commer

    D thank you president Stone oh oh sorry actually commissioner D if you don't

    mind I'm gonna quickly allow commissioner burnol to comment on vice president janik's

    report thank you um U commissioner jonic

    couple questions if you happen to have the answers handy uh is there any rank Choice voting

    in New Hampshire and do you have any idea about

    um numbers or percentages of jurisdictions in New Hampshire that plan

    to actually use voting Works system um there's no rank Choice voting

    in New Hampshire that's not one of the requirements that state had but um I did

    have a conversation with Matt row who had had spoken with us at a few meetings

    and he said there this only happened in September but they're basically in New Hampshire they have a they have to um

    each Town gets to decide on its own which voting system to buy so um they're

    in the sales process right now and I think [Music] um

    um I don't know if the number is known yet how many are going to be using it in in

    November and they wouldn't be using it in the primary um no I think well Matt had said

    I think their primary might be before um March I'm not sure yeah

    they're early yeah so the the earliest usage would be in November 2024 there

    okay great thank you sure thanks commissioner burnol commissioner

    D yeah actually I had a quick question for Vice presid on it before I give my report um the

    certification document that you included had indicated that um they needed to

    meet certain requirements by 2026 it wasn't clear from what I could

    understand from your report it sounds like they've already met those requirements is that is that right or do they still have additional Hoops to jump

    through well Matt told me that they they do plan to meet the requirements or they

    or they meet them currently so he he didn't indicate to me that there was any issue with them Meeting those

    requirements thank you uh okay um so uh as we know we were all

    waiting with baited breath to see what governor uh Nome was going to do on the pending State legislation on a redistri

    reform and uh it was a split decision uh he signed AB 764 which will now be known

    as the fair Maps Act of uh 2023 uh and that uh prohibits incumbency

    protection because that was something that was widely a problem in this last cycle um it increases requirements for

    public input hearings um you know the number and when they happen um that's

    never been an issue for San Francisco we've always had many uh

    hearings um it also clarifies uh the recourse if the IRC the independent

    Rising commission cannot agree on a map and that was something that

    um uh wasn't very clear before so now it clearly outlines that it will go to the

    superior court and that the Superior Court can hire a special master

    um uh it's unclear uh how this

    how this legislation may or may not uh affect San Francisco there are

    um um exceptions um in certain cases and other cases where it it seems like it

    would sweep up San Francisco as well um for example uh this was brought up at

    our last meeting that since we have our own mapping deadline probably this

    recourse would not apply to us um it but

    it's not clear because it says uh the section does not apply to a charter city

    that is adopted in in its City Charter a different method for adopting city council District boundaries when a

    districting deadline is missed and we don't have anything in our Charter that

    indicates what will happen if the deadline is missed and so we we kind of

    um uh improvise this last time around um the other thing that it has that may be

    of interest to us is it has the long list of disqualifying conflicts of interests that were also in AB

    1248 um and and that clearly says that it

    includes Charter cities as well so in any case I've um I've asked our dcas to

    uh please opine on this and and help us understand what the implications are um

    for ab 764 and uh I know they're working on it uh they're hoping to get something in

    early November for us on that uh so the the bad news was that AB

    1240 was vetoed um not on not on the

    substance of Governor Nome in his note said he supports ensuring community control but on budget

    considerations uh even though this probably wouldn't be a factor in next year's budget it won't be a factor for a

    while probably for the next couple of years uh but in 2019 he had vetoed

    similar legislation uh that were proposed uh in

    s SP 139 by Senator Allen uh on the

    similar grounds uh oh in that one he very clearly stated that he agreed that

    these commissions can be an important tool in preventing Jing mandering so um

    part of the reason he stated in his previous veto message was that uh jurisdictions are allowed to establish

    independent commissions on their own and so uh that was one of the reason he had

    cited previously um so in this case he cited uh State

    reimbursable uh um funding that

    um uh should be handled in the budget process so that's a somewhat similar

    language to what he had previously stated now interestingly enough he did

    sign uh SB 314 which established a Citizens redistricting Commission for

    Sacramento County County's Board of supervisor and he also signed

    ab34 which uh creates a similar commission for Orange County so and

    several other County commissions have been created by special bills and so it seems that he's been signing the ones

    for particular counties uh but not the Statewide

    legislation so uh having said that it's been solid support in the legislature

    about same number of um same number of Senators and one extra assembly member voted um this time for

    a1248 um we have always uh known that this

    legislation we started this process I think commissioner Stone said 16 months

    last month so it's been 17 months since we started studying possible reforms uh

    so we started this before uh the state legislation uh had been introduced and

    uh we will the fierce committee will continue to um move forward with

    recommendations um and bring that hopefully to the entire body uh in a in a package for the

    entire body to consider at our November meeting and hopefully by then there'll

    be some clarity um from the city attorney on the impact of of what we

    will have to comply with regardless of the charter Amendment uh and where we

    might have some degrees of freedom so uh that's all I have on the state

    legislation and until our fce committee meeting on October 30th when we will review this in more

    detail did you say November I think you meant did you say October oob October 30th thank you commissioner D um folks

    can raise their hand I also gives an opportunity for commissioner Parker you wanted to weigh in as well um I know

    you're on Fierce commissioner L is not um has an excuse absence today so um

    wanted to give you space if there's anything specifically otherwise you could raise your hand um okay

    commissioner Hayden Crowley thank you commissioner D um I would just like to

    know I'd like the City attorney to weigh in on what's within our jurisdiction and

    what isn't because I'm listening to different perspec persectives and I do want to know where we're going

    with this because I have been of the um the frame of mind from the beginning

    that that ultimately this belongs with the Board of Supervisors and um I did think that that

    at some point that that was where it was going to be moved so I just am

    questioning how much more involvement we and and whether or not it's appropriate

    or not appropriate for us to be making recommendations around it I know that's the purpose of the fierce committee but

    now I'm questioning whether or not that's within our scope so I don't know

    um uh DCA Flores if that's something you've already weighed in on and I haven't and I've missed or um if we

    could get clarification on that thank you for the question commissioner Hayden Crowley um we have

    weigh in on this almost every meeting I think we could asked this question um well I don't think it's been clear I

    really don't no worries um so yes the commission does not have authority to

    put um this Charter Amendment on a ballot um the commission can work with

    the Board of Supervisors um to put this on the charter um I believe it is public

    knowledge that the commission is working uh on a charter um amendment

    that obviously is too late now for the March 2024 election um point point of

    clarification the commission is not working on a charter Amendment not the commission I'm sorry supervisors the supervisors yes just want to make sure

    that's clear to anyone listening yeah so I believe that uh one of the supervisors said that she is working on a charter

    Amendment um and again the commission can have as little or as much involvement in that process either by

    giving recommendations to the Board of Supervisors whenever um a charter amend mment is introduced or you know

    individually if the Commissioners want to be members of the public advising um

    or giving their opinion about this to the Board of Supervisors um so again you the

    commission does not have authority to put a ballot measure um and because this

    is generally within the realm of Elections um there's you know

    there's it's if you wanted to continue on this process it it would not be inappropriate um but also you don't have

    a requirement to continue with this process so it's really up to the commission's discretion um if they want

    to continue to do this uh redistricting

    recommendations um in case the Board of Supervisors ever does um pull up an item

    for Charter Amendment does that clarify commissioner Hayden Crowley uh

    uh thank you dcor yes it does and I apologize for the misunderstanding but there has been a lot of different

    opinions on this subject and so I I appreciate the clarification and we're

    always here um out of the meeting to discuss this with you um and to you know

    to talk further I don't feel like this is the only opportunity that you have to ask us questions thank you both um I see

    commissioner D's hand is raised I want to give folks another opport like folks an opportunity to um who haven't had the

    chance to speak if that's okay um commissioner haen Crowley was at the end of your comments okay um vice president

    jonic thank you president Stone I just had a couple questions following commissioner d

    report um the first one is took Deputy City attorney Flores um just to just to confirm are

    you are you um will are you or will you be reading

    AB 764 to see whether it affects San Francisco in any

    way uh yes my office is reviewing um this uh legislation um as we have

    communicated to commissioner D um we may may or may not decide to issue a public

    opinion if you know if this is just like another reiteration of the fairmax app of

    2019 okay one of the things I would would like to know is um you know if

    there are parts that affect San Francisco you know would it require San

    Francisco to adopt a charter Amendment or would these requirements just take effect

    like you know it it wouldn't be necessary for us to pass a charter Amendment um it's too soon to opine on

    that yeah but when you get around to it that would be one of the questions I have sure thank you and then um this is

    a question to commissioner D for um in terms of or the entire first

    Committee in terms of the document you're putting together if um if at any

    point a commissioner wanted to provide some language on your document would that be something that we would provide

    before you while you're working on it or is it after you present it to the

    commission um vice president jonic do you want to go through the rest of your questions or do you want to that's all I

    have that's it okay um I commissioner D yeah it it might be helpful for um for

    us just to reiterate what our process is going to be so uh so again at our last

    meeting we went over kind of the the highlights of our discussion so you could kind of see where the fierce

    committee was coming out um we didn't take a formal vote at that time because

    we wanted to see we ourselves wanted to see everything in writing after six hours of reviewing everything so we will

    have an opportunity as a committee on October 30th to kind of see everything

    uh together um and then our intent is to

    probably use very much the same format of the beautiful deck that um uh

    commissioner Parker had worked on uh for the fierce committee with answering each

    of those questions uh and with what our final recommendations uh would be to the full

    body and take a formal vote and and then we'll publish that

    um as soon as we can for the full commission to consider and review and so

    again remember our mandate was very limited which was the fierce committee is was going to dig in and then

    recommend uh a set of reforms for the full commission to consider and then the full commission will

    then agree or disagree or modify and uh make a decision on on on referring this

    to the Board of Supervisors um as uh DCA Flores noted

    the supervisors have their own process going on uh they're the ones with the legislative Authority and so I'm sure

    they would love to hear what we recommend um as as they consider what to

    put in the ballot measure and then they will have you know they will they will go

    through a public input process to finalize things because there are a number of things that we've talked about before that the fierce

    committee doesn't have a strong opinion on or you know wants the Board of

    Supervisors to to use that public input process to make a final determination so the goal is by

    November the full commission will be in a position to to you know move these recommendations forward or not um but

    for our racial Equity report we want to try to give this off our plate by the end of the year so we can focus on

    elections for 2024 and in answer to um

    uh commissioner's question I want to make sure I remembered it

    um would you please restate your question sure I was just asking if if a commissioner had language they wanted to

    um you know propose to be included in the the document is that something that

    they should provide to you before before you come up with your draft document or after yeah I mean we are an open Forum

    as we asked at the last meeting if any Commissioners have issues that you want us to address in our October 30th

    discussion so that we can put this final report together uh we would love to hear

    it so we we had um commissioner barnholtz brought up the question about financial disclosures and commissioner

    Hayden Crowley brought up the question about major donors so these are things that we will discuss as a committee uh

    so if you have something that that you would like us to address or discuss I mean we're probably not going to be

    finessing it down to specific language we're mostly focused on you know these are the reforms that we think make sense

    uh we're keeping it you know Broad and high level because how the uh the

    supervisors who are sponsoring the ballot measure might you know specifically write language that will be

    open to public comment through their process okay thank you

    okay um I don't see any other hands I'll make some comments specifically about

    the redistricting piece and then um I will also move into my

    updates so uh thank you for the report and the high level of what happened at

    the state level I want to reiterate a couple of things that I shared in the

    last meeting um and resurface them here just for emphasis uh so I think we

    probably hopefully all agree that next year our top priority is uh the election

    the elections um and supporting the department and insulating the department from um any sort

    of uh unnecessary attention that would take their

    attention from anything other than doing the job of Running Free Fair and

    functional elections and so to that end I think it's important that as it

    pertains to redistricting in this initiative on the commission that it is wrapped up before the end of the year so

    that when we go into 2024 we are no longer working on this this issue um and

    I think that's in the best interest of of the initiative and uh the department

    and the public and I hope I hope folks will agree but I want to reiterate how important it is that 2024 our focus is

    on supporting the department and also working on the priorities that we committed to uh last last meeting that

    all touch how we're going to support elections next year so just want to remind everyone of that second piece

    that I wanted to resurface is the the process and the plan that commissioner D

    laid out um and some some key dates uh so from my understanding the fierce

    committee will be meeting October 30th the next Commission meeting will be November 15th and then the following

    commission meeting um not including the opsite because we are not agendize

    redistricting for that uh the next meeting will be December 12th and then it's the end of the year so really what

    that means is if we think backwards if we go back to my point number one uh

    that means we have two elections commission meetings to wrap this up um

    and what does that mean for the fearce committee so we talked last time about the uh interest to transition the

    awesome document that the committee put together that included a lot of questions and we had some discussion around it but transition it to answers

    um and a a kind of robust package that commissioner Dy had spoken to um I I

    would like to share that I think it would be very important for that document to for the commission to have a

    week ahead of the November regular meeting for us to review that document

    um one caveat to that being that I don't think we will need a full presentation

    from commissioner die or chair die or any member of the fierce committee walking through each specific bullet the

    idea would be that we review a package um in that meeting and hopefully

    everyone will just make sure that they read it thoroughly ahead of time um and then it means that we would

    have one other meeting to come back um and make a final decision I realize it's a pretty tight

    timeline for the fierce committee um it's just something I wanted to to share the other piece about that that I think

    we'll have to discuss is um what is that vote going to look like what is that

    what is that what does a vote actually mean um so the question could be is that

    you know our slate of recommendations to the Board of Supervisors is that this is

    what we've learned to be the best practice um we will have to discuss in those meetings when we decide uh when we

    vote what that will actually what that package to the Board of Supervisors would actually be alongside that we also

    will want to consider how we present it to the Board of Supervisors um will that

    you know one of the things that uh DCA Flores had called out was that the uh individual Commissioners in a personal

    capacity could reach out to you know could try and participate in the process

    I believe this commission all voted and agreed to having it be B A commission a

    full commission position and a stance um meaning we would take a vote um and

    ideally we wouldn't have individual com Commissioners representing the um this

    initiative outside of uh what we have agreed to as a body so I wanted I wanted to share that we need to discuss that

    when we do make a final vote about what that package would look like how we're presenting it is it a letter that is

    signed by um by all of us is it let's let's think about that um ferce

    committee if you don't mind uh maybe you have some suggestions for that um but

    the the last kind of point about that which I already touched on and I just want to finish this off um because

    finish where I started which is this once we've handed this over to the Board of Supervisors I feel strongly that we

    remove ourselves from the process it is so important especially in election year

    that we are not um participating in a process that will be you know we have

    all discussed the Board of Supervisors has the resources and the Outreach

    capacity and uh and more to um to take

    this to the next step and I think it's really important that we let them do that um so I hope that you all will

    agree if there is a point of of contention with that let's talk about it but my my hope is that we're all in the

    same page page about that um and that indirectly that will prevent us from

    from uh distracting uh from what the department needs to be doing next year

    which is running our elections any last thoughts about that

    before I move into my updates commissioner Hayden Crowley thank you president Stone I just

    want to um thank you for your leadership on this question because I agree with you that we do need to wrap this up and

    we need to support the department in this next year um it's going to be a critical year and Running Free Fair and

    functional elections should be our number one priority so I appreciate your feedback on that I do have a question

    because there will be a number of recommendations in that package are we going to be doing voting as one because

    there may be some that may I mean if I take a look at it and I don't care for

    one or two I might vote no on the whole thing so is it something that we're going to go through one by one and we

    and as you mentioned we don't need uh a another presentation about it because

    we've been down the road but it could just be one of those things where we go line item by line item how many

    recommendations will there be ultimately at the end of the day approximately and what are we looking at is this going to

    be a marathon meeting um I will definitely thank you

    commissioner hiden Crowley I'll I will hand it over to the fearce committee I'll I'll also share my brief thoughts

    which is I fear going line by line by line um I think we've done a really

    great job as a body cutting our meetings down um not that it's not important to have these conversations but um I do

    think maybe we could all prepare one idea and I will you know hand it to

    everyone I'm just one member of this body is to um for folks to come prepared

    to share in the November meeting to share the specific areas that they want to challenge or influence or change the

    language of as vice president jonic said and have that be in the November meeting we have a discussion about the specific

    points that were are brought um because maybe there'll be a recommendation that no one has issue with and then we're

    just opening it up um and the hope is that the fears committee has already kind of done that um and so uh that way

    we can have discussions about people's specific areas and then in the December meeting there's an updated package and

    then we've vote Yes or no and let's say you don't like where it ends and you vote no for the package we can you could

    also include your explanation to that in whatever let's say you were in the minority of the vote we could include

    that as part of the explanation that's just an idea though um just just an idea I see commissioner Parker's hand is up

    so so I think um a couple of things um one in

    order to have an efficient process I think that if there are issues that haven't been brought up yet um questions

    concerns or recommendations for specific language I would highly encourage people to send those to us before our October

    30th so we can do that heavy lifting and in including those as much as possible

    and then perhaps um at our November meeting as a full commission I mean maybe we sort of treat it as as one

    would a consent agenda you know where it's like it's a full It's a Full Slate and this is the whole thing and if you

    want to pull a particular item because you have concerns about what what's been proposed

    um then then you pull it you know otherwise like so that sort of approach you would take with a consent agenda

    maybe could be a way we approach this um so which is part of why I think it's

    really important that if if you have any concerns just send them along to chair D

    who will then bring them to our agenda for discussion so that we can have an efficient

    process thank you commissioner Parker vice president jonic yeah thank you president Stone yes I I also add just a

    suggestion on the process to follow up with what commissioner Parker said like one option that might allow the

    commission to vote on the whole document to avoid having to go through everything would be you know if there's one point

    that you disagreed with maybe you could there could be a little appuse in there saying that commissioner so and so

    disagreed with this point but you you could let people know in advance and that way you could choose to support the

    document with that clause in there so so the document would reflect that there was disagreement on on a particular

    aspects kind of like minority opinions on things it's like Supreme Court yeah

    yeah desent dissenting opinion um commissioner Hayden Crowley did you have

    any thank you um commissioner D anything else from you okay um just really

    quickly please do send us the note because we only got two items from the last meeting and if there are other

    things that are on your mind just let us know because we will do that heavy lifting for you okay thank you

    commissioner D I will say until we see an actual package it's

    pretty hard to provide that level of feedback at this point so you know I haven't shared that because I really

    want to see a full document first um and I'll speak for myself on that so I you

    know I I don't want there to be surprised if when I see the finished the the draft of that recommendation that

    comes from hopefully the the fierce committee's final vote um if I have thoughts about that it's not it's not

    because I've just been holding out I really do want to read the document before I uh before before I um vote on

    anything we will we will oblige thank you um and just this is going to not

    make everyone happy but uh clearly 2024 as I've said top priority

    but if we can't get this done in the December meeting I'm going to have to call special meeting because it's that important that we do not do this in 2024

    and I I hope everyone agrees um and I don't like to make you know

    threats um but I think again what's most important is not bringing this into 2024

    so hopefully hopefully you all are in agreement with that um okay if there's

    nothing else as it pertains to redistricting I'll just jump into um a couple of updates on my end um first

    just some high Lev ones and then I'll go into the the the packet item so good

    news uh from from the director um that we have our

    computers so um secretary Davis will send a note about this how you can get

    yours if you want one um and making sure you're all set up but it's very exciting

    I can't wait to have mine um but please look out for that email from secretary Davis and if you have any questions

    about that please reach out to her um the second is that I have sent the I've

    sent director ARS the priorities that we agreed to in the last meeting um we be in conversation over the coming weeks

    and months um I also shared the commission's desire to uh potentially

    have individual Commissioners participate in quarterly voter registration activities um and so the

    director and I will will be talking about that and how to do this in the right way um one thing I just wanted you

    know I think I mentioned this last time but if I didn't I'm going to share it now uh we do I do want to be thoughtful

    of not causing any sort of environment that could be intimidating for members of the department given that we are the

    oversight body um so we'll try and figure out the way to do that in the best possible way um but I think it's

    always great to get visibility into um into what into what the actual

    day-to-day work is um which brings me to the next Point uh which is that our offsite is now uh confirmed for December

    1st um we're working on the agenda for that um big thank you to director arnst

    for also being open to having US tour the warehouse I'm really excited I think this will be great it'll also get people

    uh more uh more familiar with the warehouse ahead of 2024 because I think

    it's also um I know commissioner Hayden Crowley in the past you've been there on Election night I think it's really an

    awesome experience to be able to see the amazing work that the department does on Election night um and leading up to the

    election and so getting familiar with that space leading up to um the primaries and everything coming next

    year I just really excited about it um we will also have um some uh one of the

    agenda items be around open source um and some other stuff so I'm really excited I really appreciate everyone

    getting back to me and bearing with me when we had to reschedule um and then the last is just

    this process so in the last in the last meeting um actually in the last two regular meetings uh there had been

    conversation raised about legislation uh that um that is um either Advanced or

    implicates the Department of Elections or elections in San Francisco in general and the commission having an opportunity

    to potentially review that um and so I spent some time um thinking about this

    but most importantly also collaborating with the director on this process um and

    making sure that there that it was a collaborative effort um or even a negotiation of sorts of what would make

    sense uh making sure that you know us being as a body having some element of

    notification around um around these types of um instances of legislation

    which is you know full disclos Ure not that frequent but still important um

    while not also slowing down the the operations and the Daily Business of the department so um that is what you're

    looking at it's very very brief um but a big thank you to director Arns for working with me on this um being open to

    it uh and really the high level that I I'll just call out is that um the the director has agreed to offering to a

    30-day notice requirement for um you know legislation that um that affects the

    department and and our elections and also has offered to include a brief

    description of the legislation and any uh and the rationale behind what that

    position so for example when we were talking up 1416 around ballot labeling um we we had kind of had this

    conversation about how it was in the it was technically brought in front of the the commission through boek and through

    the budgeting process but it was necessarily this formal notification to the department excuse me to the

    elections commission that uh This Is The Stance the department will be taking and

    I think it's a good opportunity for the Department to be able to explain this is why we're taking you know this position

    forever what reason um one important note of that though is that the commission does not have to take doesn't

    have to agendize it and doesn't have to take a formal vote so there's no policy that that binds us to anything it's more

    just a notice requirement that allows us to know what's happening know why the department is doing it um or working on

    it and then um if so choose the elections commission can uh review

    independently you'll notice that there is also a component about Contracting decisions which I know has been a topic

    of conversation historically on this body um and the important thing to note

    is that of course the elections commission cannot interfere with those types of decisions or even necessarily

    the contents of it um but I there is room to independently review that the

    department followed the appropriate process um that the city has laid out for that and also the commission may

    take an independent position in terms of a resolution of sorts um of whether or

    not they support or don't support it but but there is no uh capacity for or

    rather there's no um uh room for the elections commission to interfere with

    those decision decision so I wanted to make sure that was called out because uh obviously large Contracting decisions do

    require a piece of legislation so that is the high level of what's in this document um I hope it uh

    reflects what you all had in mind um the last thing I'll just mention and then I'll open it up for for Commissioners to

    make comment is that it if we do um if if folks do approve of this we will um

    it will obviously mean that for 1416 and what the what we will do for that for next year would probably follow this

    process um and already that is something that um that we will that we will have

    to think about in in the future but not right now um that is all from me so I'll

    open the floor up for folks to add their add their thoughts add their comments feedback um it is all

    appreciated yes commissioner D yeah thank you for um working with director

    ARS to put this together I um my only thought was 30 days might

    be a little short for us given that we only meet once a month and so maybe

    something like 45 days just to make sure that we we have a meeting that we can actually discuss it uh because sometimes

    at least in the past we've learned about this you know through the director's report which we get 72 hours before a

    meeting and so part of it is that we haven't had enough time to absorb it and think about it and so um so yeah I

    really I really like that we would a get notice and B get some more insight into

    the Department's rationale um uh I would also like to

    see the um the the the counterfactual which is

    like here's why the department thinks we should do this but I'd like to see pros and cons uh because I think you know

    when we had first heard about 1416 we had mostly heard about the fact

    that it was going to be costly and it might result in you know it would break all kinds of processes because of the

    number of cards and we didn't hear the other side of it which of course we heard in Spades at a following meeting

    so it would be helpful to you know to get that from the Department like here's

    why we could do this here why we could do it here's where we came out

    thank you commissioner D vice president jonic yeah thank you president Stone uh

    for starters just thanks for a lot for putting this together and director AR for being um you know collaborating on

    on this document um I think it's a great idea I think this is something that would have come in handy many times over

    the years um just because you know like like we all know

    sometimes something can go before um a committee and then you know if we only

    find out about it a few days before when the committee agenda packet gets posted then there's not really enough time for

    the commission to um you know take a position on it if it wants to whether that be in support or

    maybe there's a small tweak that um the commission might have wanted to voice to

    the director before that but um I yeah I think I'm fully supportive of this and

    just thank you for the work and putting it together thank

    you thanks vice president jonic other

    hands okay I'll add um my thoughts in response to the feedback from commissioner D so um couple of thoughts

    as it pertains to um the you there are a few that I wanted to touch on one is the

    30-day requirement so the idea behind 30 days there kind of two components of

    this one is um things do have to move kind of fast um sometimes with these

    types of things if we give it too much time um it could actually slow down the department um and it it would might

    actually interfere the one good thing about the 30 days is that uh most of the

    ways that you think about it you would still be able to get one elections commission meeting in within that 30-day

    period and as you see in the um in the proposed

    policy it says the full commission full elections commission will receive formal

    notice so all Commissioners would be made aware of it um and let's say

    happens you know with a very short window the commission could call a special meeting so um the idea was to

    create a nice Harmony between um supporting to not slowing down the work of the department while also um giving

    the commission opportunity so just wanted to respond to that and then um I'm glad you like the Insight idea um I

    I have mixed emotion about the uh pros and cons because I think actually as it

    pertains to 1416 I think if we had had a formal notice even if it didn't have the the

    alternative stance it would give us time to research the alternative stance um and it would give time for members of

    the public to to um to weigh in if if

    necessary I would be interested to hear what other Commissioners have to say about that just because it would obviously add um add a layer of of work

    for the Department um but I'd like what I'd like to know what other folks think um and then I uh oh I got all of my

    points special meeting 45 versus 30 days notice everyone will be made aware and then the pros and cons um but I'd like

    to know what other what other folks think about about those two things um as well and if anyone has has strong

    feelings commissioner Parker have to keep turning my mic on

    um I mean of course pros and cons are always nice and I I am wary of doing

    putting too much um on the department to provide in background I I feel like if there's a brief

    rationale director arnst is a smart thoughtful person I would assume that um in that rationale that if there was

    something very controversial about it there would be some sort of an anticipation in that and saying and we

    see that you know there might be this thing but we have decided to move forward with this position because X Y and Z and so I can see something like

    that being in in some language and anticipated if it's going to be controversial um because he's at all of

    our meetings he knows what we talk about and care about and and things like that um I don't have a strong opinion about

    it but I am wary of of adding too much um ahead and as long as we have notice

    on a particular item and the public has notice on a particular item that we will

    be able to get the information we need thank you commissioner

    Parker vice president ronic yeah just the last thing commissioner Parker that that you said made me think of something

    but um if the commission learns about something 30 days in advance that

    doesn't necessarily mean the public knows about it but I'm wondering if um

    you know we would have the ability to like post on our website you know where the

    meeting would normally be posted that um just the information just so that so

    that um people outside of the commission could also learn that but just an

    idea thank you vice president jonic commissioner Hayden

    Crowley I believe that any proposed legislation would be on the Board of Supervisors site in advance there's also

    a notice that's given through the Board of Supervisors to the affected departments so I can't see where that

    would be a problem for us to post anything as well

    but the DCA can weigh in on that thank you commissioner Hayden Crowley um I don't feel like we need and

    I feel like it's pretty straightforward um I I actually support that um and I

    think vice president janik's suggestion about posting on the website I like that

    it holds the commission to something in this policy as well um that even if um

    uh let's say the um the commission doesn't choose to

    agendize it or there's not much you know anything like that if the commission wants to post it on the website to make it more available to the

    public they may do that so I'm happy to to incorporate that

    um yeah I don't I think that's interesting because then it gives room for for alternative opinions to arise

    kind of answers the procon question

    does anyone else have any comments on the 45 versus 30-day

    requirement commissioner Hayden growley uh I'm in favor of 30 days I think it's really difficult to operate a department

    and we the city city government gets accused all the time accused maybe is a

    rough word but of plotting along and not moving quickly enough and we do not need to throw more obstacles Les in the

    Department's way thank you commissioner adley commissioner

    d uh yeah I just wanted to State for the record that I I think you addressed my

    concern uh so as long as uh especially if it's posted on the website so if that

    30 days includes public posting then I think that addresses both my

    concerns um thank you commissioner die I'm just taking a note um okay any other

    comments okay I'm going to move that we adopt this policy do I have a

    second second thank you commissioner Hayden Crowley um let's move to public

    comment hi there um DCA Flores a moment ago um chuckled

    when uh asked about the uh questions um

    about uh the appropriateness or legality of your all's work with this Charter

    Amendment and redistricting and you you should think about that Commissioners why why

    is CA Flores getting that question at almost every meeting and I've looked

    back at these meetings they come up this question comes up at most of the meetings one of you asked it in one way

    or another and we've seen answers from DC Flores similar each time tonight she

    said generally within the realm of Elections that's uh one answer that

    we've had in other meetings she said that it's elections adj

    so I'm not criticizing DCA Flores I'm just pointing out that's what her replies are

    um let that be instructive something doesn't feel right about this or else

    you wouldn't be asking that question all the time and I urge you in this year

    this election year that's coming up ask yourself do you want to be embroiled in

    this controversy around redistricting during an election year or on the approaching of it does the department

    deserve that does this does do we Citizens need

    that from you isn't this something that we can handle at the Board of Supervisors with our supervisor why do

    we need this commission to put its thumb on the scale of this political matter it is a

    political matter risting there's just no question about

    it I think it's probably the only Election

    Department oversight body to Lobby a city council for a redistricting

    initiative I don't think there's another one in the country I thought about it I don't think there's another one this is

    not how it's done down at La again they have their own committee down

    there this is something for not for you guys to

    do this is a political on this is why does

    this polit why is does a political unelected

    oversight body want to make this recommendation so the question uh that

    came up a minute ago what will the package be that was the question what

    will this package be let this package be a

    report we don't need this body to make a recommendation to our Board of

    Supervisors thank

    you thank

    you we do have one call

    in hello caller hi this yes hi this is

    Lauren gerarden with the League of Women Voters of San Francisco um thank you for

    all these great discussions tonight um redistricting and also proposed

    legislation these were conversations um that obviously the league was very

    interested in hearing uh your conversations about and as was mentioned during your discussion the elections

    commission started its inquiry into redistricting reform well before ab1

    1248 was introduced and you're as we've said before we believe you are the right body

    to be working on this um your very public um very open meetings um and the

    abundance of conversation um and public comment that has been able to be shared

    has been truly just a wonderful part of this process which if anyone has seen

    the Board of Supervisors process they have open process as well but this is

    truly robust um and really I think is just showing up in the results that the

    fierce committee is producing um and we're really looking forward to the city attorney's uh

    analysis of ab 764 impact on San Francisco um we're really glad to hear

    that that was requested uh we strong ly encourage the information be made

    available to the public because it affects redistricting which itself is a

    process that must happen within full view of the public so how can the public

    understand redistricting if it doesn't know what the city believes its responsibilities are from the new State

    uh the new state law um and we we really want to see this

    wrapped up as well um the league is also very busy during election years um and

    uh are working on voter registration campaigns and things like that so um we

    want to we want to be able to focus on that as well um and you know but I just

    think it's so important that you do put reforms forward a package of reforms forward uh that can help the Board of

    Supervisors craft a charter Amendment so San franciscans can get the independent redistricting they deserve and our

    community can get the fair elections that we need as a city and thank you for sharing the process for proposed doe

    legislation um about the 30 days notice 45 sounds great but we like more notice

    we like the public to have more time um but you know I I I I hear the concerns

    about slowing down the process but if you do decide to go with 30 days notice and the suggestion to call a special

    meeting as a way to solve that tight timeline I wanted to uh we wanted to remind the

    elections commission that you still don't have a way to push meeting information and meeting

    notices bye thank you your time ran

    out I I'll just add that if there was you want to finish that thought you can send also send it via email um and we'd

    be happy to add it to the meeting record um and I I would be happy to read it as well thank you

    it okay vice president jonic yeah I I can

    guess what they were gonna say but I think it might have be that we don't really have currently have a mechanism

    of pushing information out to people like it would require people to visit the website every

    day so um I mean I could be wrong but that's what I'm guessing sure that's

    it um I welcome the feedback and ideas if people have them um including from

    the league about how to think about that um and um you know it could even be like

    an addendum that we add later on to the policy I'm definitely open um to that I think this is at least a good starting

    point I hope folks agree um and it can always be added and amended as I

    said okay any other comments before we move to a vote commissioner

    D you're on mute I just wanted to clarify that uh I think there was

    agreement on on that we would post it on our website uh when we get it 30 days in

    advance so to me that seems like a minimum even if we don't have a way to push it out which I'm sure we can solve

    over time I just want to make sure we haven't lost that because it's not currently in the in the proposal

    are you asking for there to be an amendment to the document that in specif

    that specifies that the elections commission would be responsible for posting it to its website a friendly


    sure let me just make a note of that vice president jonic yeah I don't

    want to too much um you know make it too much work but if do we also have a a

    mailing list for for agendas like maybe that could be the way to push stuff out if um let's table that please sure that

    is a bigger conversation um yes let's table that conversation but I appreciate

    the enthusiasm around it and the idea we can keep talking about that um I will tell you secretary Davis has been doing

    some work in the background on that specific ask great no no problem oh

    yeah also this will be included in the director's report so this will be posted on your on your website by default so it

    doesn't have to be a special process to get this information to the public thank you director

    ARS okay have a good night very cool it's hot out there yeah um okay so um

    the motion is to adopt the proposed

    policy with the uh Amendment as as proposed by commissioner

    D um secretary Davis can you move to a

    vote Yes um president Stone yes vice president jonic yes

    commissioner burn hols yes commissioner d

    i commissioner Hayden Crowley yes commissioner Parker yes and

    commissioner Luli is absent okay you have six yes votes for

    this awesome thank you I'm really I'm really excited like I said welcome ideas um from the league from Commissioners

    from members of the public um our email his address is on the our email

    addresses are on the website so don't hesitate to reach out to us um thank you everyone so let's move to

    item number six agenda items for future meetings discussion and possible action regarding items for future agendas um

    and this is items that we haven't already touched upon of

    course any items folks would like to raise vice president jonic yeah um just

    the the question about the um the ballot labeling topic is that something that

    you think we'll talk about this year or um this is President Stone I it is

    something the director and I have already talked about it earlier this week um so we will um we're going to try

    and work on a discuss we're discussing it um so yes I think it has to be

    discussed very soon because it will be a part of the budgeting process um for the next year so yes I don't know if it'll

    be in the October I mean sorry the November meeting but I think before the end of the year is likely okay thank you

    yeah thanks I will also add that we will

    probably separately agendize the president's report not to put you on the spot um but we'll probably make that its

    own separate agenda item um so we give give things a little bit more space anything

    else okay let's move to public comment

    I have no public commenters okay that closes out agenda

    item number six the time is now 7:42 and the meeting is adjourned.


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