Elections Commission Regular Meeting - January 17, 2024

Wednesday, January 17, 2024

In this page:


    Regular Commission Meeting.
    Meeting video and transcript located below.


    1. Call to Order & Roll Call

      A member of the Commission will state the Land Acknowledgment Resolution:

      The San Francisco Elections Commission acknowledges that we are on the unceded ancestral homeland of the Ramaytush Ohlone, who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula.  As the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their traditions, the Ramaytush Ohlone have never ceded, lost, nor forgotten their responsibilities as caretakers of this place, as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory.  As guests, we recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland.  We wish to pay our respects by acknowledging the ancestors and relatives of the Ramaytush Community and affirming their sovereign rights as First Peoples.

    2. General Public Comment

      Public comment on any issue within the Elections Commission’s general jurisdiction that is not covered by another item on this agenda.

    3. January 2024 Director’s Report

      Discussion and possible action regarding the monthly Director’s Report.

    4. Commissioners’ Reports

      Discussion and possible action on Commissioners’ reports for topics not covered by another item on this agenda: Meetings with public officials; oversight and observation activities; long-range planning for Commission activities and areas of study; proposed legislation which affects elections; others.

    5. 2023 – 2024 Elections Commission Policies & Priorities Review

      Discussion and possible action on the Elections Commission’s current policies and priorities for the Commission and Department of Elections, per San Francisco Charter Section 13.103.5 and as approved on September 20, 2023.

    6. Election of Commission Executive Officers

      Discussion and possible action to elect a new Commission President and Vice President, per Commission Bylaws Article V, Sec. 1(B). The procedure will be as follows:

      The Chair of the meeting will open nominations for President. Any commissioner who wishes to nominate a candidate will state the name of that person. If that person agrees to run, then that person is nominated. When there are no further nominations, the Chair will close the nominations and call a roll call vote in which each Commissioner shall state the name of the nominee for whom he or she is voting. If a nominee receives four or more votes, that person is elected President. If no nominee receives four votes, the Commission may have further discussion, and proceed to another vote. This process shall repeat until one nominee has received four or more votes. The same process will then be used to elect a Vice President.

      Per the bylaws, the terms shall begin immediately at the conclusion of the meeting.

    7. Agenda Items for Future Meetings

      Discussion and possible action regarding items for future agendas.

    8. Adjournment

      There will be an opportunity for public comment on each agenda item.

    Date & Time

    Wednesday, January 17, 2024
    6:00 pm to 9:00 pm

    City Hall, Room 408

    1 Dr. Carlton B Goodlett Place
    San Francisco, CA 94102
    View location on google maps


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    January 17 regular SF Elections Commission Meeting

    In this video

    1. Call to Order & Roll Call 00:15

    2. General Public Comment 05:30

    3. Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes 05:59

    4. Director’s Report 22:51

    (Agenda items re-order as #4, #6, and #5)

    6. 2023 – 2024 Elections Commission Policies & Priorities Review 1:01:19

    5. Commissioners Report 2:17:56

    7. Election of Commission Executive Officers 2:37:09

    8. Agenda Items for Future Meetings 2:44:20

    9. Adjournment 2:50:39


    excellent okay so we're going to start this meeting over um apologies to the public and uh the rest of the commission

    for those technical difficulties um we are ready to begin welcome to the

    January 17th 2024 regular meeting of the San Francisco elections commission I'm

    the president Robin Stone The Time Is Now 6:12 p.m. and I call the meeting to order before we proceed further i' would

    like to ask commission secretary Marissa Davis to briefly explain some procedures for participating in today's

    meeting can you hear me yes the meetings uh the minutes of this

    meeting will reflect that the meeting is being held in person at City Hall Room 408 one Dr Carlton B goodlet place in

    San Francisco and remotely via WebEx as authorized by the elections commission's

    February 15 2023 vote members of the public May attend the meeting to observe

    and provide public comment either at the physical meeting location or remotely

    details and instructions for participating remotely are listed on the commission's website and on today's

    meeting agenda public comment will be available on each item of this agenda

    each member of the public will be allowed three minutes to speak six minutes if you are on the line with an

    interpreter when providing public comment you are encouraged to state your name clearly once your three minutes

    have expired the staff will thank you and you will be muted please address your comments to the entire commission

    and not to a specific individual while providing public comment remotely please

    ensure that you are in a quiet location when joining by phone you will hear a beep when you are connected to the

    meeting you will be automatic ly muted and in listening mode only to make a

    public comment dial Star three to raise your hand when your item of Interest comes up you will be added to the public

    comment line you will hear you have raised your hand to ask a question please wait until the host calls on you

    the line will be silent as you wait your turn to speak if at any time you change

    your mind and wish to withdraw yourself from the public comment line press star three again and you will hear the system

    say you have lowered your hand when joining by WebEx or web browser make

    sure the participant side panel is showing by clicking on the participants icon at the bottom of the list of

    attendees is a small button or icon that looks like a hand press the hand icon to

    raise your hand you will be unmuted when it is your time to comment when you are

    done with your comment click the hand icon to lower your hand in addition to

    participating in real time interested persons are encouraged to participate in this meeting by submitting public

    comment in writing by 12: noon on the day of the meeting to elections. commmission

    sfgov.org it will be shared with the commission after this meeting has concluded and will be included as part

    of the official meeting file thank you president Stone thank you secretary Davis Will you

    pre please proceed with item one commission roll call yes president pres Stone present vice president

    jeronic here commissioner bernh holes here commissioner Dy here commissioner

    Hayden Crowley here commissioner loli here commissioner Parker here president

    stone with seven members present and accounted for you have a quorum excellent and commissioner D will you

    recite the land acknowledgement for today's meeting yes yes the San Francisco

    elections commission acknowledges that we are on the unseated ancestral homeland of the ramitos alone who are

    the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula as the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance

    with their Traditions the ramitos alone have never seeded lost nor forgotten their responsibilities as caretakers of

    this place as well as for All Peoples who reside in their traditional territory as guests we recognize that we

    benefit from living and working on their traditional Homeland we wish to pay our respect by acknowledging the ancestors

    and relatives of the ritos community and affir affirming their Sovereign rights as First

    Peoples thank you commissioner D that closes out agenda item number one um

    agenda item before we move actually to agenda item number two I just wanted to announce a quick agenda just or change

    in order so uh agenda item number four is the director's report and then agenda

    item number five is commissioner's report and then agenda item number six is policies and priorities review and um

    we're actually going to move agenda item number six between 4 and five um so that

    the director can stay for that discussion and then um we will pick back

    up with agenda item number five so just to rephrase that the item will go the

    order of items will go agenda item number four agenda item number six then agenda item number five let's move to

    agenda item number two general public comment public comment on any issue within the elections commission's

    General jurisdiction that is not covered by another item on this

    agenda there are no hands

    raised okay there are no hands raised great thank you um we will close

    out agenda item number two and move to agenda item number three approval of previous meeting minutes discussion and

    possible action on previous elections commission meeting minutes um so uh just

    to kick this off quickly uh the we had had these items for the most part

    agendized in December they were postponed due to the amount of material that we had to

    get through last meeting um and then additionally I was asked to put together

    just a little memo on uh our how on our meeting minutes in general um and those

    just to quickly run through what is on that document it just explain pulls the

    specific section of the sunshine ordinance um uh walking through what is

    required for meeting minutes and then also pulls a highlevel explanation of

    the Roberts rules uh the Roberts rules pertaining to meeting minutes there are

    way more Roberts rules than what is included in here uh if folks recall from

    a a year ago it's crazy that was already a year ago um we the I put together a

    very abbreviated I think two sheeter on Robert's rules that the commission could

    follow to uh manage and run operate our meetings and uh included in that

    document was ALS Al a explanation of what is required um in meeting minutes

    based on Robert rules Robert's Rules and our bylaws specifically state that we follow Robert's rules for our meeting

    minutes um and then of course we are all obligated to comply with the San Francisco Sunshine ordinance so um that

    is what you will find in the memo document and then uh the other items are

    the September October November meeting minutes with commissioner D's revision

    which we did not have the opportunity to get through um in the last meeting so I don't know if commissioner D you had

    something specific you wanted to share to intro those edits um otherwise we can open it up to to

    comment yeah just briefly I um uh my um edits

    were often to fix typos uh and to improve

    readability uh in some cases I try to make them more succinct um and also try to balance out

    like in some cases I think particularly in the September meeting minutes there seem to be a lot of detail in some

    things and no detail in others so so with my notes I try to balance that out

    a little so that is um all I have to

    say thank

    you and if folks have forgotten since the new year you can just feel free to

    raise your hand using the uh blue button on your on your

    screen I can make a couple comments um if folks don't have any so I think where

    I had concern because I had raised I had raised this um is that there isn't

    really that much that we need to include in our meeting minutes and um I am I

    have concerns with big substantive additions and

    changes um that were that are more material or added specific context but

    perhaps um added very specific context uh that I

    felt perhaps were not necessary but maybe what one commissioner wanted

    mentioned and so I had asked that the full commission review these to make sure they agreed with the changes um

    before we approve and going forward part of the reason why I hoped that folks can

    review the um the me Memo I put together

    we can all just agree that we don't need to have these very lengthy edits I agree

    that um you know if there are typos and things of that nature fine I also don't

    think we need to over overload the commission secretary

    with word changes that are just personal preference um and so that's my feeling

    about it uh really we just need to make sure we comply with the sunshine ordinance and the specific asks of the

    uh uh by of the um of Robert rules and I

    don't think we need to make it more intense than that the other piece that I wanted to give feedback on is that I

    think it's inappropriate for the commission to insert names of public commenters who did not provide their

    names especially if a if they did not provide their last names um we're not

    required to do that unless they offer it um we can it it specifically says um the

    names and titles were appable um for close session but then the members of the public who spoke on each matter if

    the speakers identified themselves um whether they supported or opposed and a

    brief brief summary um of that agenda item but I don't think it's appropriate for us to add in our names just in case

    we know them that is my personal preference um again open to hear other

    people's feedback uh but I don't think that should be a practice of ours unless people offer their names those are my my

    pieces yes commissioner Hayden

    Crowley thank you president Stone uh I would agree with you and I also just

    would add as just as a guideline um when I think when when I as I

    understand how minutes should be prepared with Robert's Rule of orders according to Robert's Rule of Order and

    also to just as a reminder we have a recording of every meeting so this is

    just a sum the minutes are supposed to be a summary of our actions and and then also I believe that the bylaws or maybe

    it's the sunshine ordinance that says that we have to identify the speakers and if and in in consistent with what

    president Stone has said uh if they don't identify themselves I don't think that we should include their names we

    should just share the information that they share but I would say as a rule

    because they will typically give an opinion or whatever that um one good thing to do is to take any adjectives or

    adverbs out of every um uh description

    because I think that's a way that people then um can introduce bias and our goal

    is to just present the facts straight up and it's up to any to if people want

    more information they can simply refer to the recording and interpret it the way that they choose to because

    everybody has a different perception of how things are uh presented and received so that

    would be my recommendation but I also think that as the items come up if there

    is no action taken so for example director ARS presents his report so director ARS

    presents his report we have the document that shows what his report is if there's

    no action taken then nothing more needs to be said because anybody can refer to

    the recording if they want more information thank

    you thank you commissioner Hayden Crowley

    um uh secretary Davis would you mind actually closing the attendee box so I can see commissioner bernh hols thank

    you so much just in case the commissioner raises their hand want to make sure I can

    see commissioner commissioner

    D yeah so um I don't have any problem with instituting that that um policy

    moving forward um if someone doesn't introduce themselves that we don't identify them however in many cases they

    did introduce themselves and it sometimes it's hard for um to catch the

    name so uh or the correct spelling and if we happen to to have that information

    I don't see why we shouldn't provide it I know that's something that uh that this commission has done in the past to

    to try to get people's names correct um and then again I don't I don't have a

    problem with moving forward I I think part of the challenge is that there's been a great

    inconsistency uh in the minutes and what we capture and some minutes are very detailed and some you know are fairly

    sparse and if we want to go with sparse moving forward I think that's fine uh although

    as someone who has had to consult a lot of minutes lately um I think very few members of the public have the stamina

    to to go through you know three-hour plus meetings uh recordings and so um

    capturing a little bit of color is is not a terrible

    idea thank you commissioner

    d okay I will also respond this is President Stone there are multiple

    instances commissioner D where you added people's names when it previously said Community member so I just want to be

    very explicit like I think we all agree then I mean not we all agree the three

    of us seem to be on the same page but if there's an area where a we couldn't

    catch the name and they gave it that's one thing but if they didn't give their name I don't I personally would Advocate

    against including it I think it's inappropriate um and I think members of

    the public are entitled to that level of anonimity if they want it um and I hear

    you about the inconsistency I think that's why I put together the memo is to give direction

    um but I also think it's okay it doesn't need to be perfect uh and I you know I

    think I I don't think we need to overdo it um I understand that you've had in

    your experience recently in your review have needed to consult the minutes more

    but um we do have you know we know what agenda items there were the secretary

    does put up the recording there are many ways to access it without us having to

    drag on link the minutes discussions which has happened ever since I've been on this commission so I think going

    forward let's keep it brief Let's uh let's uh really stick to what we are

    required to do and hopefully if we can have some general consensus that the

    names of folks are only included if they've explicitly provided it provided

    their names and of course edits to spelling are welcomed um are welcomed as

    well uh would folks I been interested to hear other members of the commission

    this is more just a general topic than it is specifically around the September

    October November

    minutes commissioner Parker um thank you I appreciate the

    memo um and would agree with um generally

    this discussion think you know I agree with the the comment about the members of the public um and only including

    their names if they provide it and if there is some knowledge to get a correct spelling or um or you know the name and

    it was UND misunderstood in the you know the instance itself that it's fine to correct so I agree with all of that um

    and I appreciate with the memo kind of key words that I would say I took away is that what was done versus said is

    just kind of reiterating what has um already been said and and would encourage us yeah moving forward to do

    these things um I um I appreciate the last thing that

    you just said president Stone I uh of us not trying to be too focused on perfect

    um because I don't know that that's the best use of our time um accurate is um

    probably the most important you know um and you know and when we're when

    we're capturing what was done the topics um the the very high level you know if

    there is a document that definitely covers um what was uh shared in that item great but very highlevel topics and

    um and focusing on accuracy as opposed to perfect is um is where we should put our energy because we have a lot more

    things to spend our time on in our meetings um so that's all I have thank

    you commissioner Parker

    okay um I otherwise think I my feedback

    specifically is about going forward so otherwise if Commissioners don't have

    concerns with the with what uh commissioner D has provided in feedback

    previously My Hope Is that we can have General consensus about the process

    going forward um but if anyone has concerns or um feedback about

    commissioner D's feedback on those minutes from the last year or from last year's

    minutes please raise those now otherwise I'm just going to ask for General consensus that we move to adopt the

    drafted changes from commissioner D okay let's not drag it on much longer

    okay so we are going to accept commissioner D minutes changes

    uh for the September October November meetings um and going forward with our

    uh minutes we will try and keep them brief and fairly consistent where

    possible uh using folks's name if provided and spell check and you know

    edits accuracy changes word uh grammar it spelling Etc are welcomed in feedback

    changes yes vice president jonic yeah thank you president Stone I think also like another thing we

    could do is um you know during public comment we could remind members of the public that if they would like their

    name reflected in the minutes they could just identify themselves because some people might

    forget that's all thank you thank you vice president jonic anyone have

    any I think that personally I think that's a good idea happy to happy to to

    ask uh secretary Davis to include that in the um in the

    script okay so we don't need to vote on it but I just would love just a general nod everyone is agreement of the go

    forward okay wonderful I'm glad we're getting these three off the plate and thank you commissioner D for your

    extensive work on those appreciate it um let's move to public comment on agenda

    item number three approval of previous meeting minutes

    there are no hands

    raised okay thank you secretary Davis that will close out agenda item

    number three let's move to agenda item number four the January 2024 director's

    report discussion and possible action regarding the month director's report and the many other items on his agenda

    item oh yes commissioner Parker just just a quick um point of order and I may

    have missed this because I knew you talked about the order of things were we supposed to do general public comment before the minutes we did and I just

    wasn't paying it was brief no one was no one raised their hand thank you for keeping us

    honest um yes director ARS thank you president

    Stone so a couple of update well one update on my direct from my director's letter on item 1B we indicated that the

    logic and accuracy would begin on January 17th however the the translator

    that the Secretary of State's office uses was late in getting the final translations to the Secretary of State

    who was then late getting the translations to the county so our testing will actually begin next Monday

    on the 22nd we ised a press release today indicating uh that change

    um then also just so the commission realizes ballots will be going out Friday and Saturday to overseas voters so we've we've already we already deep

    into the election uh even though you haven't received your B Vo information pamphlet yet um and

    then what so also at the end of the director's letter there's a list of items that we're providing the

    Commissioners in relation to doing uh conducting Outreach for for the election so there's a list of items and I'll

    leave this here you guys can can can grab it uh after the meeting I guess uh I don't know if you want to talk about

    this now or how you want to go about the commission supporting the Outreach efforts for the Department uh but

    president Stone had put forward previously uh how the Commissioners can support the department in conducting

    Outreach for the March election and as far as Staffing any sort of events or

    tabling or or things like that uh we we have sufficient Personnel for those activities but we think where the

    Commissioners could be supportive of Outreach for the election is to actually

    to use the materials which are also on our website there's links all these materials the digital copies on our

    website too if you want to uh share those links with your friends but the idea is that the the Commissioners can

    leverage their networks their friends and any events that they attend and and bring these Outreach materials or even

    uh place them in your you know your your work areas or that you attend and that

    would be probably a way to help us expand our reach more than you coming to something that we're already Staffing uh

    so we have the materials here and they're also on our website and I'm glad to take any questions on that then also

    attached to the director report is the election plan which uh the commission uh

    would need to review and approve uh prior to the election and also there's a waiver that's attached to my director's

    report and that waiver is is a is a is a release of the

    prohibition of city employees assisting the department in conducting the election and that's part of the charter

    amendment that created the elections commission uh there was there was language that prohibited city employees

    from assisting the department in the past we've we've had Personnel from other departments help us with the

    uploading of the results from the memory cartridges from memory device or memory cards from each polling place this

    election we're going to do that work ourselves so we don't have a need for the extra Personnel from other

    departments uh but so this is more of a general waiver of the prohibition and primarily we would appreciate any city

    employees who uh are bilingual in Chinese Spanish and Filipino especially

    uh to to volunteer as poll workers for election day uh so that's the purpose of this waiver then hopefully the

    commission will approve the waiver and then it would be forwarded to the Board of Supervisors for for their final approval and then we could could

    actually enlist city employees to to work as to volunteer as as pole workers

    then also attached to it's in Incorporated in my director report and attached to the director report is

    information on the uh Chinese character-based names uh that which was

    a topic recently as we went with the nomination period and might be just in a

    way better take questions on that but uh primarily I want to say that the department didn't change any any

    requirements around the documentation or substantiation that uh potential candidates could submit to verify their

    use of a character-based name uh but the board of the Board of Supervisors did pass a resolution unanimously requesting

    that the department adopt a state law that incorporates two-year time frame

    for candidates to be using a character based Chinese character based name uh

    but the board can't change local law through through a res resolution they can only do through do so through

    ordinance I don't know the board's approach I wasn't a part of any conversations on on the board uh

    introducing And discussing and passing the the resolution but uh the department

    considered the requests and although the local uh law the Mec section 401 does

    not have a time frame attached to it the the state law has a time frame of two years we determin we could we could pass

    a a a standard or we could Implement a standard of two years to to mirror the

    state time frame which we implemented for this past election for this past

    nomination period so the the document the the types of documents themselves

    never changed there was no we're it's a very very liberal low threshold for

    people to submit documentation in regards to their use of a character-based name uh so the only

    thing that was different was the time frame where there's no time frame stated in local law there's now a two-year

    standard a standard of of two years that we implemented then going forward uh I

    will go to the board and have them formally uh adopt a two-year time frame in the local code as well um

    so I think I'll just take questions from there so um uh director ER just in order

    of operations I actually had one uh clarifying question the election plan we

    need to approve prior to the March election correct so

    recognizing I don't know if all the other Commissioners were able to get through the 70 pages of the election

    plan yet um but would it be possible for us to

    agendize that again at our next commission meeting as well or are you hoping to have the review and approval

    today procedurally February is fine I mean the

    election's continuing right so uh this is

    basically a statement an overview of what we're doing to implement the election to conduct the election so

    election will continue uh even if you wait until February to approve the plan thank you so what I was what I had in

    mind was if folks were able to get through it um at length

    um we I think let's try to get through it today if folks have continued

    questions we can roll it into February but for the purposes of this

    conversation let's start with the director's report questions pertaining to the director's report uh and and and

    uh the specific items that he mentioned around Outreach and the wave and well

    I'll come back to labor and the Chinese character um names and whatnot and then

    let's move into the election review and if we need to we can always extend um

    but we do need to take action on the waiver so I think let's start with our thoughts questions for the director

    about the report then move to the waiver then move to the election plan if that

    sounds good to everyone because I think it's a lot to tackle all at once is that does that work for you okay

    um anything else director ARS before I hand it over to the thank you

    okay yes vice president jonic uh thank you president Stone yeah thank you for

    your report director um I uh just had one one question about

    the Chinese character-based name I think we're on the waiver right now are we on the waiver we'll do the depart the

    report questions first then we'll do the we'll take action on the waiver yeah

    yeah but I I first wanted to mention that I I did see one of the the um

    Department um advertisements on one of the bus the bus stops which was very

    cool I saw it on 24th Street and it was very prominent you know was biking by so

    it's um good work on that is that the first year you've done that design or the design yeah yeah changes every

    election yeah and um so on the character base name I just wanted to get clarity on one um part of it because I know you

    weren't here last month but so just to um just to kind of

    summarize and then maybe you can tell me if I'm correct so the current ordinance it gives you a little bit of discretion

    in what standards you want to apply for you know whether to adopt the names like

    in which includes the time frame is that correct so the Mec has no time

    frame yeah so it gives you discre on what time frame to adopt and then

    um and then also related to that you're not required to have the board if you

    decide on a certain time frame you're not required to have the board incorporate that into the law but it's

    your preference right so that you don't yeah it's better to formalize the time frame in ordinance rather than have it

    be a policy yeah okay yeah so I guess my one my one point of confusion was um the

    last meeting the materials that were part of the packet said that you um it

    said that you could change the time frame and then um but there was an

    article in the San Francisco standard from like the week before saying that

    you had already changed it and it was from December 4th and do

    you know the article I'm talking about I don't yeah so there was an article on December 4th saying that some of the

    candidates were complaining that you know that the 2-year requirement had been um implemented but then in the

    materials to the commission it said that you were it didn't mention that you had already changed it

    so were you um did you change it like in early December or in November or

    no mid late December M okay after the fourth for sure so how did the

    candidates know that it was two years or you hadn't told them at that point or it was it was more based on the information

    that provided to us so if candidates didn't provide information to us that had that would reach back two years and

    we contacted them okay so then it was later in the month that you decided to go forward with the two-year time frame

    correct okay I got you that that clears up for me

    thanks commissioner Hayden Crowley thank you president on

    mute thank you president Stone um thank you director ARS for your comprehensive

    report and your um awesome uh election plan um question you indicated in here

    3A that you are continuing to hire an onboard about 200 temporary employees

    and so is you indicated that I think that 70% of those are

    returning of the 200 I think I I don't know if I read that in this report or the other one or the election plan I

    don't think it's 70% I read it I read it in here I somewhere can not not in all instances

    maybe in some areas but not in all instances like the ballot the people that will be doing the ballot distrib

    the work with the ballots uh they're moving up the cards from the envelopes and that work they're

    mostly they're going as we go as we move through the election cycle they're going to be mostly new Personnel oh okay yeah

    so you're still hiring because I the I I just I am telling people that you're

    hiring oh yeah and they they've applied and they've gotten the they've gotten an acknowledgement from DHR but they've

    heard nothing after that it's been over a month that's why I asked yeah that's

    yeah and that's I can't remember I think it was the election plan where we indicated that uh we're hiring in phases

    so it's not just all at once so that we can actually accommodate the the the

    workload better but also just the nature of the city's processes yes I understand

    that we it's just and that's there's like the advertisement period you know

    and then there's the all then even if we bring someone in for interview there's the the the onboarding pro so if someone

    has applied and they've been and they've been acknowledged by DHR uh does it mean that we're not interested or may not

    contact them it just a matter just depending where things are in the city's process processes and also where we are

    with in our hiring cycle for specific positions depending on what they applied for okay okay I will let them know that

    because I I am actually I told I told another person the other day to to apply

    so I mean anybody that I know that's kind of you know I I because I figure you need good people we do yeah yeah and

    if if if there's a job announcement still on DHR site then that position those positions are still EV still open

    great okay thank you and thank you again for your uh comprehensive reporting well

    thank you commissioner

    Parker um thank you um as always um I have perhaps all of us kind of nerd out

    on this stuff because that's why we're on this commission but reading reading your report I just was getting so

    excited because it's I don't know elections are I like I like them a lot

    um so I hope so I know I'm like I probably say that in this room everybody feels the same way um but you know

    election day putting on the sticker after I vote and I just I just love it um so anyway um thank you so was fun to

    read it um I let's see one thing um I had a question which I answered myself

    and I'm going to just share for the Public's benefit um I had a question when I was reading is is where the

    public could find the list of the 30 seven ballot drop boxes that would be open starting in a couple of weeks um

    but again I answered my own question and so I just want to share with the public I actually did find it fairly easy to find um if you go to the Department's

    website on the return your ballot page there's a map of dropboxes where you can find those if you want to drop your

    ballot off before election day um and appreciate also the packets that you put

    together and related to that um you know in your absence um last month when we had uh you know I appreciated the

    suggestions of of how we could be involved which I realize this is part of that and then there was a one other item

    in that short list and so I just want to um make sure that this is what you were speaking to earlier that said um that

    Commissioners could help Place election door hangers on local residencies with no currently registered voters or election posters or utility on utility

    infrastructure neighborhoods with below average historical turnout and so when you said we're pretty staffed and events

    and things like that were you referring to that also or is this still an area you would appreciate commissioner help

    on we would appreciate help that actually yeah so you want to show them your goodie the goodies you brought us I

    don't think that's the same thing isn't no it need to be similar but yeah so if you could just provide more information

    on like how we might be helpful on that particular item I would be interested in

    hearing that um and then I think that's the only question I had the rest was

    just enthusiasm and thanks I mean essentially we would those areas the map that that it's also these

    these bags but uh that was in the the election plan indicates like the the

    greenish yellowish areas of the of the city those are the areas that we want to be placing the hangers and then uh and

    we're still organizing our Personnel ourselves to to do that work so if there's an area that you'd be interested

    in you know you let me know so great and how much you can car

    uh that's that's great I mean I like walking areas and doing that so happy to reach out all right that's great thank

    you commissioner d uh director ARS um thank you we're

    always in an awkward line of sight here um I wanted to thank you for coming up

    with um a creative solution to the challenges that Chinese candidates were

    having with their own names um as um we didn't have the chance to discuss it with you at the last meeting

    but um uh I'm glad that you came up with a solution that was acceptable that that

    the the policy that was trying to guard against cultural appropriation was actually causing a problem with people

    who had the culture and so coming up with a solution that you know dealt with

    the intent of the legislation um I think shows good judgment and I appreciate that uh

    and also um as a fellow elections nerd I always appreciate your very detailed

    elections plan um I as usual enjoyed the taglines

    that your staff came up with um I also like the clever you know reuse of

    Graphics of the Iota sticker that it's being used for you know other parts of

    the campaign um and um I really like um the kind of evidence

    based um tactics that you're working on to try to increase voter registration

    which of course is the one of the elections commission's high priority so appreciated seeing that you know I vote

    for my family I vote for my community I vote for the future I think that's fabulous and you know hits a lot of the

    key demographics that are underrepresented so I just wanted to thank you for your work

    than I'll jump in I guess we're going to just do it all the election plan and the

    director's report um I had a couple of things so I just

    wanted to Second commissioner D's comment about the solution for Chinese

    names I know the department goes above and beyond to try

    and make the process itself easier to not not be a roadblock um for candidates

    uh trying to get on the ballot um and I know I I just wanted to give kudos to

    the department for that um and if you know there are other issues that come up

    with concerns I think it's shows that um there is obviously the commission if

    folks have real you know if there's big issue um but I think it shows that the department resolved this in a way that

    is actually Fair um and um also keeping the lens on how to support

    how to keep how to support folks um so I just wanted to add some kudos to that um

    and I actually wanted a point of clarification about commissioner perker your question you said it was separate

    from the things that director Arns brought so I think I misunderstood what was your original question to

    him um so in the his director's report for December right there were three ways

    Commissioners could help and the the one it was number two of the three ways and

    it was putting election door hangers on residences and when I looked at his list of what was included in this packet in

    his report it didn't look like that's exactly oh what this it looked like a

    different thing because the other cuz the number one thing in last month's report said to distribute election

    packets containing registration forms br assures pole worker applications Etc so I took that as mostly meeting that need

    and right did I read it correctly yeah that that first item is mostly that these packets are mostly the first item

    in that list of three and the second item is a little distinct which we just discussed okay got it that was a very

    detailed like you were much more detailed about that I just said oh great here are all the things um thank you for

    clarifying um the uh I had a couple of questions

    pertaining to specific areas of the director's report so what and you may

    not know this off the top of your head director Arn what is the participation rate of overseas voters um because I

    actually was surprised to see that the number of overseas like eligible is so high and I know that participation rate

    of overseas voters at a national level is like tiny um for a variety of reasons

    um so I'm curious what the participation of those folks is um in terms of

    registration and also returning their their ballots even though they vote I

    know electronically yes yeah most most of the time they still facts uh facts

    wow yeah so imagine that there well the the the the potential registered uh

    overseas voters I don't know that number I don't think anyone does uh as far as particip participation rates it depends

    on the election some elections like the special elections we had in 2022 we had pretty much a low turnout

    with the overseas military overseas voters but then when you get into the presidential cycle the the number gets

    higher and I think for the November 2020 election for instance I think the overseas voter turnout was very similar

    to what we had here in San Francisco like in 80 some percentiles really yeah

    yeah yeah we're getting flooded with with faxes from overseas yeah I read

    some report recently I would have to go back and look that the national the national level is like under 10% no no

    no okay I must have had a different for a special election maybe but even that sounds low for San Francisco but for the

    presidential cycle the primary will be well I don't know it's hard to say but the primary turnout likely will be lower

    than the general election The General election will have a very very solid turnout I the number I had is in the

    2022 so um take that it's different from a presidential cycle but the voting

    rates for overseas citizens and domestic voters 3.4% of overseas voters return to

    ballot in 2022 3.4 which is crazy um so anyways interesting um and good to hear

    good to hear we have so much participation that's definitely rate

    um one other call out I wanted to mention especially pertaining to pole

    workers uh and now understanding a different perspective around kind of

    where the numbers are at because it said a thousand has recruited over a thousand poll workers obviously needs to get to

    2,000 but wanted to just put a plug into the commission as well that January 30th is National pole worker recruitment day

    and so I think if there are things that you can PLL from the website around how

    to apply to be a poll worker and share it in your own communities and social

    channels networks just a little plug uh they're all available on on the website uh the P

    worker application is on the website so just a little a little fact uh I also

    think it's great to see the registration numbers in the director's report again really excited uh that that's being

    included I'll talk a little bit more about that as it pertains to the election plan and then uh one question I had

    about the grantees in the monthly reports are they also providing the

    department feedback are they giving you are you I mean you have so much work on

    the Department's level so you know there's so many things that you are managing I'm just curious if in the

    monthly reports from the grantees they're going to be giving the department some data that can help you

    do things going forward with those communities let's say we don't have the budget to do grantee funding and the

    department has to do that are there things that we will be getting from those reports that perhaps could inform

    the department in future Outreach well they have to quantify their work okay

    so uh if that's what you mean but if you mean more like process or procedures or

    or practices we do have a an after Grant meeting with the grantees so we we do

    get their feedback uh from them and they you know whatever input they want to provide to us we certainly take it seriously awesome yeah I was more just

    wondering learning about because they are specifically working in their own respective communities of there are

    community-based insights that the department can use when engaging in those in work with th or Outreach with

    those specific communities so I think you answered that that's great um and

    then moving along we talked about all of those things I as it pertains to the

    director's work I just wanted to say what an incredible election plan you put

    together and on a very selfish note I was very happy to see some of these

    things around voter the UN the eligible unregistered voters and the map and all

    of the prioritization around that I just wanted to say a huge thank you to these

    effort for these efforts I know it's a commission priority it's obviously been something I've been pushing on you for a

    while that I I think you already are so committed to but seeing this renewed

    push ahead of March is really amazing so thank you so much for that I also agree

    want to Second uh commissioner D's comment about the messaging and the uh

    and I think vice president Jordan made a comment about it as well around uh the

    the messages about why people should vote I think those are awesome and agreed also very meaningful in a for

    diverse communities which is great um I did have a couple of points I was able

    to get through uh the full uh the full report I also wanted to say a couple

    other pieces around efforts with specific communities that are vulnerable

    so obviously we've talked about on this um on this commission folks who are

    system impacted I also just talked about unregistered but uh eligible voters we

    talked about but also the direct Outreach that is being done in single

    room occupancy hotels shelters navigation centers community centers um

    I and working specifically with food pantries and folks on the snap side of

    things I think all of that is really really great and it shows a commitment

    to really being in community and making people aware of their power to

    participate in our election so I just really wanted to give a huge um a huge

    shout out to you and the department for this um I also wanted to add a shout out

    again more praise of the data fit and the dashboard that you are working on I

    think giving members of the public access to these data sets and the data

    set the data over time as well the historical trend is awesome it's

    something I think we talked about a few months ago that I I believe IID mentioned I reached out to someone from

    Mission local asking if they could include some of these um some of these

    numbers in uh maps that they already use to talk about other issues in this the

    city so that you know if folks aren't automatically thinking oh let me go check out what the Department of

    Elections is are doing they're more likely to be checking out what their local newspaper is has available so um I

    think that's that is something that as a commission can also um continue to

    support now that I'm seeing all this amazing work to that end I did have one

    question about the ad campaign in local U media and I was curious I know it says

    print media but I'm curious if about some of the uh local newspapers and if

    and how those were chosen um I saw the marina times the SF Weekly SF examiner

    SF bayew Sunset Beacon I did not see Mission local um obviously I didn't see

    the C SF Chronicle um but I was just curious I know some of these are more

    neighborhood specific curious if you could talk a little bit about Mission local or other um news outlets that you

    had engaged but otherwise I just wanted to say as a final just great work thank

    you so much and um I think I'm excited to see the results of all of your hard

    work on these efforts so on the on the ads so the newspapers are actual papers so the

    neighbor their neighborhood hard copy paper but you're aing off yeah yeah so that's that's the reason you part of the

    reason you see that list plus they reach certain populations uh we we don't advertise on

    on every uh online newspaper uh certainly we can reach out

    to Min local and see if what we also have to consider what they you know who they reach sure uh and maybe the who the

    mission local uh any Outreach on a mission local if if it would meet an audience that is we were getting another

    another Avenue we're not going to pay double for that potentially so yeah we we try to balance the the cash that we

    have with who we can reach and then the methods and we do put more effort into uh non-traditional media because there's

    a bit more cost there than we do the traditional media like even KS on that list if if you noticed so yeah I did

    thank you I think just that being a a question answered for public knowledge

    is just helpful okay uh there was one other comment that I did want to make Which is less a concern about March than

    it is about November that I wanted to just kind of flag is around the timing of results reporting and I know we've

    talked about this on the commission a it being a priority this year but B also just in years past

    concerns around uh understanding in the public and in the media about results

    reporting and uh making sure that folks actually

    understand the the process of what gets counted when so for example the

    department is going to report on you know and I'm looking at page 63 of 69

    you know the the vote by mail ballots received before election day is on

    Election night and then we move to the polling places but if more than 80% of

    folks in San Francisco are voting by mail and let's say they all drop them off um drop them off

    at not within the time frame to be included in that 8:45 p.m. cut off then

    they won't be counted those won't be included in the results for another day or two days rather um and so making sure

    the public is aware of that and doesn't get ahead of themselves not the public

    the media maybe in calling results uh before the actual votes have been

    counted so just more of a flag that we've seen we saw this happen in previous elections over the last couple

    of years and something I think we should talk about as a body leading up to November less concerned about it

    although may still be of concern in March I think definitely something in November we should pay attention

    to and that that's all from me on the director's report and the election plan

    plan um anyone else want to make comment about either of those items before we

    move to the yes vice president jonic yeah I just wanted to mention one more thing about

    the Chinese character-based name policy um we've been talking about

    nerding out a lot but if if people want to nerd out more on the the the new

    policy if you go to the um page for the the board resolution that was from

    October and the memo that director ARS provided on the pack it's a three-page

    memo but if you go to the resolution page for the board there's a a longer eight-page memo that the director um

    sent to supervisor Chan that has a little bit more background it has a copy

    of the forms that the Secretary of State recommends for state-based Statewide

    candidates as well as the form that um local candidates fill out so it's a

    little bit more um background is that correct direct okay okay so that's all

    thanks thank

    you there comments from

    Commissioners okay unless folks have questions about

    the waiver I move that we approve the directors waiver um

    immediately does anyone have comments or or were you gonna say I was going to

    Second it thank you commissioner

    D okay let's move to public comment before we

    take a vote on approving the director's waiver and just to clarify for the public we are voting to approve the

    waiver that allows city employees to assist the Department of Elections with the March 20124 presidential primary

    election there are no public

    commenters I also want to make sure I didn't mislead the public that this is

    not just on the waiver this is public comment on the director's report the uh

    March 2024 election plan and the


    okay so secretary Davis will you please call the roll call for vote on the

    waiver president Stone yes vice president jonic yes commissioner burnol

    yes commissioner dy I commissioner Hayden Crowley yes commissioner loli yes

    commissioner Parker yes um president stone with all seven voting yes you have

    your form excellent well thank you Commissioners thank you

    director Arts the waiver has been approved and we will now move to as I

    mentioned earlier agenda item number six 2023 2024 elections commission policies

    and priorities review discussion and possible action on the election commission's current policies and priorities for the commission and

    Department of Elections per the charter SE point of order did we want to approve

    the elections plan um that's a good idea sure if you'd

    like to so we did already close out agenda item number five but we excuse me

    S four but um sure we can go back let's reopen agenda item number four

    um would you like to make a motion I would like to move that we approve the

    uh the uh director's plan for

    2024 since we did not uh since we already took public comment I don't

    think we need to take public comment again uh secretary Davis will you call

    the roll call vote for the March 2024 election and thank you commissioner D I

    appreciate that

    president Stone yes vice president jonic yes commissioner burn

    holes commissioner burol yes the we're taking a vote on the the

    director's plan for March yes I vote yeah I didn't hear the first part the audio is going in and out but yes I vot

    yes thank you commissioner dy I commissioner Hayden Crowley yes

    commissioner loli yes commissioner Parker yes that's all seven uh yes for

    that excellent so thank you commissioner D again and thank you director Arns uh

    and for for putting that together very robust elections plan and also congrats

    on not having to agendize that again next month um okay now we actually are closing agenda item number four and

    moving to agenda item number six 2023 2024 elections commission policies and

    priorities review I'm not going to restate the piece I already stated so

    let's go straight into uh let's go straight into this topic uh I will I

    believe first hand it over to um to vice president Jordon if you want to start on

    since you have you've you authored two of the priorities okay sure um I guess I put

    you on the spot there hope you don't mind yeah well I thought for this item

    um it would make sense unless you had a different idea maybe you could just ask director

    Arn um what if he's had a chance to think about the different policies and what his plans are for them and then

    maybe we can respond with questions or do you sure I mean I as it pertains to

    the go to registration policy priority I was going to give kind of my sense my uh

    perception of where that stands uh less so than having the director do so but uh

    if folks have different if folks have different um I also didn't ask the director to prepare

    certain responses so if you would like to ask certain questions I think we can

    do that I I don't have a specific Vision I just

    had prepared my specific priority okay sure um should should I just do maybe

    I'll just do want to alternate maybe I can do the rank Choice voting then okay yeah so

    um yeah so the first policy listed in the agenda is the rank Trace voting results reporting

    priority and um I know director erns we've talked about this in the past at

    previous meetings and you had said that you weren't really going to work on it until after the March ction so I assume

    I assume there's probably nothing more for you to say on this or or have you done any research or anything

    or we well we indicated that we would use the program that you developed oh

    you are going to okay great correct okay great so then

    um yeah I think there isn't a whole lot more to add I mean I I guess I could mention two small things one one thing

    is um I was doing some random um I was looking around at

    other jurisdictions that use rank Choice voting and I saw that Salt Lake City who uses rank Choice voting um they also use

    dominion and they they do something similar where they um they're able to

    display the rank Trace voting results in their own custom way so they

    were able to take the Dominion results and then reformat those so that's another example

    and um and then I I could also just mention to the commission that I um I

    was planning on adding the um the tool tips to the results page where if you

    hover over certain terms like um you know exhausted ballots

    or what's another one continuing ballots it would show the definition so that's

    something that um you know the the department could benefit from too and um

    but I think there's not much else to say on this unless other people have comments or

    questions I yes commissioner Hayden

    Crowley just a point of clarification are you are you mentioned the hovering over for the terms you're actually going

    to implement that yes okay because that is great I'm always trying to think

    remember what they mean and and I understand rank Choice voting so yeah imagine for the people who don't

    yeah so I'll I'll I'll somehow communicate that to this body once I'm off the commission you know when when I

    get around to it and I'll let the director know as well I had one point of clarification so

    the D director AR you said that you are going to adopt it is that for March or for November no for November okay thank

    you for clar verifying did any other Commissioners

    have feedback on that item and director ER we can be in touch

    if um once you get around to it if you have questions or if there's anything missing or anything so thank

    you great thank you um I guess we can move to voter

    registration so yeah as I said I didn't ask director ARS to put anything

    together on this one mostly because I think the election plan and the director's report speaks for themselves

    uh they if you look back on the commission's priorities uh and you look

    at the second no the last page the it talks about potential tactics and I my

    when in preparing for today's meeting I just did a a brief and review of what was in there

    and refreshed my memory on what really we had talked about and where we stand

    currently and I think that the department is actually

    achieving is achieving all of these items uh not only um assessing the data

    but also working to get the data in the first place um but I think the map and the targeted

    Outreach and the community grants all speak to uh speak to this effort I also

    think the multi the multi method approach multi- Channel and multi-method approach to getting folks to think about

    registering to vote is speaks to all these other tactics that we had talked

    about uh under as a as sub bullets to agenda to the tact first tactic of

    assessing data and then the second piece the director immediately implemented which is incorporating data and

    registration rates in the director's report and not only is it have those items been included in the director's

    report they've also been uh updated on the um uh

    the uh dashboard that the department has been updating and so we do have total

    registrations on the director's report but then also had the drill Downs of the

    uh uh districts on that dashboard what is the dashboard called I'm not the what

    is it called eata sorry eata

    edena sorry dat dat dat dat okay thank you um apparently I'm heart of hearing

    today well most days actually um but I appreciate everyone saying it in unison

    for me uh so we you can do that drill down and the director is including the

    tactics some of the tactics employed as well in the director report so I feel we're really marching to toward that I

    also think that the director has helped the Commission in thinking about how we can uh make progress on this policy

    priority by bringing the materials today and then also answering commissioner Parker's specific question with

    resources um as the Director already said that um you know well let me take a

    step back it had been talked about in previous commission meetings that uh we

    could join some of the voter registration drives or attend some of the events that the Department's already

    doing but actually um as the Director said today and I just wanted to El re-elevated it that we don't actually

    need to duplicate their efforts but rather expand to our own networks and our own communities and so uh I think we

    should as a commission continue to talk about how we can do that whether it's through what commissioner Parker was saying of getting those door hangers and

    using the map that the director provided to Target the specific communities that have low registration rates um and

    eligible I think uh that's that's a good Next Step there are two other pieces of

    that actually three other pieces of that I think I believe we've talked about before that I think we can uh continue

    to talk about as a body and would like to continue talk about as a body is engaging our appointing authorities and

    uh their communities and their departments about folks that they're working with to um help expand our

    efforts there are other intergo like intergovernmental departments so the

    I've engaged myself with members of the office of Civic engagement and immigrant Affairs who already do really amazing

    work in communities um to engage them on all sorts of issues and support

    resources that are from the city and so um I think that's another department or

    other types of departments where we can just proactively make sure the folks who are out there in the communities have

    these resources so I think knowing that we've already hit some of our our goals

    that were in that uh in the priority document I'd like to see in future

    conversations us talking about ways in which we as a body are individually uh

    supporting these Outreach efforts around March but then again leading up to November and the last item of that which

    is separate is I'd love to add a button on our website uh

    to register to vote um you know just a link that says here's where to register

    to vote and it can connect to uh the Department's uh page uh I also think we

    could be providing a link to the uh dashboard on our website as well so

    website updates on RN can be a little bit slower but these are all things that the commission I believe can continue to

    to do and support I welcome folks comments feedback

    concerns about all of these items quick comment so we can Pro

    provide a route of where to go for the hangers

    so commissioner Hayden Crowley thank you been doing the mic on and off all

    evening just learning how to do it thank you president stone for your hard work on this initiative um I just wanted to

    share some information that I got yesterday I'm part of a a sort of a mastermind group in public relations and

    there was some information that was presented about the decline of trai traditional media and this individual who has been

    studying it for years said I'm not even going to talk about about this as something that's happening it's happened

    and they're they're really the and of course this is upsetting to me because I'm a big media person and I really love

    traditional media but anyway I just accepting it and he then brought up these different studies that have been

    done about where people are getting their news and according to the age group and I can't tell you off the top

    of my head everything but one thing that struck that's uh jumped out at me is that first of a lot of people don't pay

    attention to the news which is really concerning so we're trying to get information out about issues or or or or

    just just letting people know that it's you know to vote and to care about candidates and they're not even paying

    attention to the news we have a problem but here's the second thing is that most

    38% and it's a growing number and this is going to be a controversial thing that I'm going to bring up get their

    news from Tik Tock which of course it's controversial and we don't even know if Tik Tok will be in existence after the

    next election uh the fellow that was giving the webinar indicated he thinks it might get sold but just something to

    think about if 38% of the kids that are under the age of 25 are getting their

    news from Tik Tock we may want to think about a way to talk about registering to

    vote on Tik Tok there are departments in the city that put videos on Tik Tok

    there are short videos they're fun and it's just it I mean social is one of the

    one of the vehicles that you're looking at and I just you know you don't want to throw good money you know Away by

    putting it into something that people aren't paying attention to and I think we have to whether we like it or not we

    have to look at where what water cooler people are hanging out at and meet them there so that may be an opportunity in

    the coming year um they even even the over 65s 1 to 3% of that group those are

    the numbers that I that I remember are get their news from Tik Tock and then the another growing demographic is those

    from 25 to 34 more of them are as far as the other social media platforms threads

    and Facebook are responsible for a lot of this decline in interest in news

    because they have intentionally uh adopted a new policy where they're not referring people to new organizations so

    there's less of an emphasis on news Gathering and news information and of course if people are hanging out on

    social media they're not going to be clicking on headlines on those platforms because they're no longer making them

    available um amazingly X had only declined Five Points in terms of uh

    people getting their news from there which I thought was interesting because it's I I'm not on there but I was on

    Twitter so and and I do and I will say I miss it because for breaking news I think it's really valuable um and then I

    I they did talk about some other platforms but I do want to share that information because it is something that

    we have to pay attention to because if that's where people are getting their information then the elections

    department needs to be there promoting voter registration and this group needs to think about that

    too you do look disappointed I'm sorry no no I I was just the Boomer telling

    telling the millennial no I I was just going to say thank you for keeping us all awake through the rest of the night

    with our fears about the future of my world you and my kids been upset when I tell them this they no that can't be

    true no you said nothing I don't already know I just try to suppress those fears

    of our existential crises um commissioner D yeah I was just gonna add

    on um to the comment it's it's actually a really frightening number it's much higher than that uh if you take it a

    cross-section of how many people get their news from social media I was just thinking um you know the uh campaign you

    did for going green uh which had that nice you know short video and then

    you've got these you know this catchy messaging and this cute rhyming it it's

    actually the stuff you have is I think with a little bit of work you could do a very quick tick Talk video and get that

    out quickly get some of the creative folks to to work on that because like I said you've already got rhyming stuff

    right just add a little dance and you're

    there I'm not suggesting you do the dance but maybe some of maybe some of the

    department prman Stone I think no I no no one wants to see

    that I'm just commenting the Department already does a lot of great you know

    kind of catchy you know short um messaging so it's actually a good medium

    for you thank you commissioner D vice

    president jonic yeah or if the department doesn't want to do it you could always host a contest other people

    could you know do it so lots of


    anyone else okay are folks open to us

    continuing the oh yes commissioner Parker just gonna undo it I I was trying

    to decide if I should um ask anything I was just thinking about um you know some of the ways that

    some of the things you were suggesting president Stone about you know engaging our appointing authorities expanding our

    efforts and things like that and um so it just made me think I know director

    arst you've talked a lot about how you've worked with high schoolers and and things engaging them around um voter

    registration um poll workking things like that and I'm realizing I'm not sure

    have you also had any conversation with the school district in the past about um voter registration of families and

    caregivers in the school district um has there has the Department ever asked them

    to put out anything in like their their Wednesday packets and things like that we have in the past I don't we haven't

    for this election and then more recently he's been around non-citizen voting yeah

    yeah okay um that might be I mean that's such a such a large number of people in

    one spot so it just made me think because my appointing authorities the school board is this something that I could help with you know is reaching and

    having them put something in their um in their Wednesday envelope um kind of

    packet that goes out to all the schools if you hadn't already done something that's something I could help with um so

    it's a big group so anyway thank you for the

    thinking thank you commissioner

    Parker great um so if folks are open to it I think we'll just continue the I

    might plan to just agendize this again uh not or whomever will agendize this

    again so that we can keep talking about ways in which the commission can continue to support uh whether it's

    through our appointing authorities or our networks taking materials from the Department to keep ourselves

    accountable I think that would be good that is it on

    my priority vice president jonic do you want to finish us out sure so move to

    the third priority which is the open source voting priority and for this one I just thought

    I would preface it with something that else that's relevant which is um you know from the director's report we see

    that the budget is is going to be become a big issue this year and then in future

    years and we've heard from Advocates that open- Source system could be as as

    um save the department as much as 50% on its voting system contract each year and

    if the department has a an annual budget of around $20 million and our current voting system

    contract is um $2 million a year like a 50% savings would be 1 million which

    which would be 5% of the Department's budget so if the mayor's asking departments

    to um reduce their budget by you know 5% to 8% per year this could be a potential

    way for the Department to meet that goal without affecting um voter services or

    um Department staff so I think it's a really good thing to work towards

    because it could be a huge um savings to the department which is um just going to

    become more much harder to meet you know with each year that passes so um I there were a couple

    things I wanted to mention about this topic in addition to that but um I

    thought I would just give director Arns a chance to um share I know director RS did send me

    an email uh towards the end of last month but I can let him mention that but

    um in November I had asked if you had had a chance to think about this priority and um I thought I would just

    give you a chance to um let the commission know you know what what you're thinking for this next

    year in terms of the two bullet points that we had uh put in the document

    and so I did email you asking for a list of contacts of Open Source vendors and

    then uh I have to go through the information you gave me because there weren't a lot of vendors on that list

    that I that I noticed but then I actually have questions for the commission on this priority nor that I

    have thought about it so the the commission wants the department to forward the commission's priority to the

    vendors and ask the vendors how much they need from the city financially and

    then also what the department can do to help the vendors get certified is that

    correct um so let me pull up the document here so

    basically the city has had a long a longstanding policy for the the city to

    work with organizations to to develop an open source voting

    system that the city can use so this this commission policy and Department

    policy was an attempt to [Music] um to like meet that City policy so the

    idea was that there are potentially you know many

    organizations out in the country that would be willing to partner with the city to help develop or to develop an

    open source voting system that the city can use but um but we don't the city doesn't know

    what what these organizations need until we ask them so the idea was that if you

    send an email out to um not just vendors but organizations because some of these

    um individuals might not be associated with like a necessarily someone that's

    labeled a vendor but if we hear back from them and say like hey you know we we would be

    willing to partner with you for um you know for free if you we need you

    to answer these questions and then we could develop this system for you and and if you can try it out you know we

    will do this for you or maybe they would say you know we can do this for you for $50,000 or

    $100,000 or maybe it's Z like in the past voting Works offered to do something for 0 so the idea was that if

    you send out an Outreach email just saying like you know hey the city has

    had this policy to work with an organization and um is this something

    you can help us with and what would you need from us so it's kind of an open-ended

    um query and then based on what you get back it can help you decide you know

    whether any of these seem promising then how much of this Department's resources would you think

    we would need to commit to this well that's that's what's the beauty of it you don't need to commit to anything

    just to send the email out I mean it's you you would get the information back back and maybe you'll get you know a few

    responses and you can share those with the commission and then using that information you can kind of work from

    there like maybe maybe some of the responses require very little from the Department

    or maybe some require more but it would at least give you and the commission the

    information about what the options are to to kind of work towards the city

    policy of partnering with the an organization I know I know just

    historically one of the examples that I know you've mentioned is uh the department uses a an envelope sorder

    from um a vendor is that correct yes and there was a time where you did a pilot

    with them right where they they made some changes to their sorder to um so

    the department could use it is that correct right but we didn't help them develop their

    sorder well but I mean it's it was a pilot though that they but they brought the

    product that we use for the election yeah so so the idea is

    that until you until you ask the organizations we don't know what the

    possibilities are so you know based on this information you could learn um you know what are the

    options you know may maybe some of the options would require very little from the

    department but again how much resources of the department do we commit to the I

    mean it's sort of so open-ended and there's nothing and there's and how do we do we have to get a contract with

    these vendors well this this initial step here is it's just to to ask you're

    not committing to anything you're just you receive the information and based on the

    responses then you can decide like is there anything here that makes sense for the department so that the department

    can move forward on this policy so you're not you don't need to commit to anything to to just to ask well if we're

    helping a vendor develop a voting system are we committing that to that voting system

    well you don't I'm saying you're you're just asking the

    question but like after you get the responses then you could decide whether or not you want to

    partner with any of these any of these organizations so

    it I'm saying that until you have that information it's it's hard to kind of discuss this in the abstract you know

    that's does that make

    sense sorry I was just rereading the sentences commissioner Hayden

    Crowley you're on mute um I I I'm just

    point a clarification I think what vice president jonic is asking director ARS

    is for you to create maybe a a brief scope of work almost like an RFP but not

    because because that would require a lot more but a scope of work that you would

    put out to the vendors Andor the organizations describing what your needs

    are and can they potentially fulfill them and what kind of resources are

    needed for on their end to do that because I think without any kind of

    initial query we are just fumbling in the dark we have no idea like we're what

    what I heard vice president jonic say is that experts out there say that we could

    save a million dollars uh or 50% of the budget if we went to open- Source voting

    well how do we really know that these are just people that are out there without some sort of a um a scope of

    work and and people bidding on it there you know that there's no way to go from

    you know to move off where we are right now so but that's a much bigger thing I

    think vice president jonic than the resources I'm just going to put words into what I'm hearing um uh director AR

    say is that he may not have the resources certainly not right now and maybe not in this election season to

    create a scope of work no matter how modest just because all of the resources are dedicated to getting putting on free

    fair and functional elections perhaps you can work together to create this scope of work that would be a way

    forward but it can't consume a lot of the Department's time because they have

    a several priorities but that's where I would think you would want to go with this because you can't move forward

    without a scope of work and that's what people need to provide a bid

    on but there's nothing to bid on because there there's no funding for it and there's I mean that's the thing it's the

    chicken and egg and what the department needs and what a vendor needs to do is to have their system approve a Secretary of State's office so that we can use it

    okay I mean that's that's that's what has to happen Okay and then what what I understand commissioner jonic asking is

    that we're supposed to ask these vendors and organizations what they need as far as funding and whatever resources the

    department has to get them to be certified that's the big ask I think and I so that's why I'm trying to clarify

    what you have in mind just asking for information I mean that's that's that's the first step to committing resources

    I'm that's I'm kind of get a sense of what you have in mind as far as the resources to commit to this I I think

    the um the scope of work that you know to use commissioner Hayden Crowley's terminology I think the scope of work

    could be just what you said I think the the city what it needs is a a system

    that's certified and has certain you know capabilities like you know rank Choice voting you know the the certain

    multi- language ability you need it could you know could be described in a couple senses and just say you know

    since 2007 or 2014 the city has wanted a system that we can use that has these

    capabilities and we we're hoping that an organization can develop it and certify it you know what what would you need

    from the city for you to be able to do that and maybe they'll say maybe it would require very little on the

    Department's part maybe they just need we need someone that we could you know maybe just try it out one

    day you know after every couple months you know try it out for a couple hours

    or I don't I don't know what they're going to say but it could be something very easy that doesn't even

    require much money or or any money you know it's but until you put

    that out there no one's ever going to um people aren't going to know to

    like to tell you what what they could do for you do for the

    city but we need a voting system yeah you know I mean we don't just need like some software we need a voting system

    and so if someone came forward and and and and replied to the Department's

    request for information we don't know what they would actually make and if it would be a good system I mean we're kind

    of committing the the city to A system that we have no idea if it' be any good or not and so that's so it's not as

    simple as it sounds at least in my mind and I'm not trying to overstate this but it's not a matter of just getting some

    information and we're going to use you know provide a few bucks and then give some information and off we go has to be

    a good system so well then what what is so like I know

    like New Hampshire did something similar they they worked with um voting Works in Dominion they and

    maybe a third vendor but they they um worked with them you know

    they had certain like interactions where they the the vendors would um update their system to

    like meet certain New Hampshire's requirements and then they had a a day where the vendors came and they showed

    the systems and now um a New Hampshire now has an open- Source system that

    they're able to use and um like they were able to to do that

    process so that's just an example of one jurisdiction doing it but

    um I guess until until you just let people know let these

    organizations know that this is what the department is interested in

    it's you don't really I mean you don't know the possibilities that that's kind of kind of to you want to learn to make

    the next decision you need to know what the possibilities are it's not it's not an RFP it's just a

    simple email that could be you know a few paragraphs long I

    think commissioner Hayden Crowley make sure you're unmuted um

    yeah I'm hearing a couple different things I'm just trying to help mediate this here um

    when you're talking about New Hampshire it sounds like the state was very much involved it wasn't handled at a local

    level or even if it was implemented at the local level it was handled though at the state level and then implemented at

    the local level but it does sound what I'm hearing from um uh director Arn is

    that you have to have an approved system by the state and that's where we get the chicken before the egg the egg before

    the chicken I I I I think one of and You'

    you've been down this road it's hard to move forward without the state's participation in it because the for the

    city to commit money Andor resources um you you don't want to um

    invest in something that wouldn't have um you know the state's blessing so to

    speak um and I I I I I'm jumping in on this with really very little knowledge

    but I'm just trying to move this forward to the you know to try and understand it um but I do think it sounds like I I

    can't wrap my head around why all these politicians go out there and say this is something that they're for and then they

    do very little to push it forward but that's kind of typical um so that doesn't surprise me

    completely so so I think I think that the state you

    know obviously needs to approve the system but that's something that the vendor would take care of and I'm

    not it's it's not something that would be on the Department's shoulders but no the your the priority for the from the

    commission is that the department would help the vendor ask the vendors what they need from the Department to get

    certified that would be the initial step so and then you'd have an array of

    replies and then at that point you could just look at the replies and then

    but that's the commitment that we're putting forward by with that policy that the commission's passed so the

    department sends an email to the vendor saying what can the department do based on this policy prior from the elections

    commission to get your system

    certified well let's say that let's just say hypothetically you get six replies

    from different organizations and then it would be up to the and then the

    commission would have this information you would have this information the Board of Supervisors would have this

    information the mayor would have this information and maybe all these different groups they could say well

    like two of these six look like they have you know really seem realistic you know maybe

    maybe one of them is asking for $20,000 or maybe one of them is not asking for

    any money maybe they just need a point of contact and then among all these

    different stakeholders in the city that the supervisors and the mayor or or the department could um maybe one of the

    members of the board says you know this is great this this one response was was good let's let's

    put um some weight behind it but but without having that initial query no one

    really there's nothing to concrete to pursue you know that's it's just really

    all all you're doing would be doing would just be getting the information

    and it could be an input into the city on how how it could move forward you know um no but the policy

    priority from the from the commission is what resources of the department do the do the vendors need and so it's sort of

    a commitment from the Department's side that we're going to commit resources that's why I'm asking originally like what resources and how how much

    resources are you envisioning the department provide I I think that minute can I make

    a point of clarification so I I think some of this is actually just language in the

    priority that might be causing some uh like I can actually understand

    where your perception is and also understand like I think I'm I'm getting

    I'm understanding a little bit differently now and you'll have to reconcile if I've I've gotten it but my

    I think perhaps the language that is most challenging on the side of the director

    is that there is a kind of subcon a

    subliminal message that implies that the department would allocate

    resources whereas the intention of the priority is simply just

    to say if I'm understanding correctly that we

    would want the uh we would want to be able to

    ask the uh the voting system the open the vendors excuse me what they would

    need from us in theory but not actually have there be any sort of

    commitment that the department would be would do any of that it is a in

    theory what would you need to accomplish this goal and I think how it reads might

    not make that clear it might imply that it's that the there is an ask

    for there to be a more a more uh realistic commitment from the

    Department when it's just an Outreach message of what do you need what would you need to be able to do this in theory

    um I think you've also raised that your concern is and again correct me if I'm

    wrong that not withstanding that fact you believe that asking about it in

    theory is still one step closer to reality and

    practical resources being allocated is that your concern it is okay and so so

    is your feedback then that even

    asking putting out there in theory this is what we would need is is still too

    close to actually committing resources themselves totally it's a slippery slope

    okay I just want to make sure we're all talking in the same

    way uh yes Vice President John it quickly and then we have actually lots of hand

    okay so I'll I'll just pose this question to the commission like if if the commission were to ask the board for

    funding for an initiative like until we ask we would

    never know how much money to request you know that's it's it's it is a chicken and

    egg but so um but I I just want to say I do

    agree with your your summary it's this is an in theory like if if you get six replies back maybe none of them makes

    sense maybe they're all asking for too much or maybe some of them aren't realistic so I would say

    that it's not you're not committing to anything by just asking is my reply to

    that but I'll I'll let others speak commissioner D yeah I was going to say

    actually a a strong City tradition to ask with with zero commitment I mean the

    city puts out out rfis all the time just to create vendor lists with no

    commitment to hire so they they put out these requests all the time and say we

    want to know who's qualified here's what we're looking for and you know if you

    meet our qualifications we'll put you on a list for the next two years with no

    it's true no commitment at all that we're going to hire you we're just trying to see who's out there so I think

    this is essentially the same thing it's like city's been trying to look at open source systems and we've hit this

    roadblock right because they can't do rank Choice voting for one there and there probably some other issues as well

    uh and we need a complete voting system so we would like to hear from anyone who

    is seeking Dev V to develop a state California State Certified you know open

    source system that would meet our requirements um and you know we'd like to know who

    you are and what we would minimally need to do to to help get you across the Finish

    Line with no commitment that we're actually going to do it but you know because you know the city's not going to

    pay for your development but what are the things we could do it could be as simple as we need a technical point of

    contact you know as we're developing this to give us feedback it could be I'm have no idea

    but I'm making stuff off right it could be as simple as that um it could be um you know we we would like the city

    to you know to to be an alpha tester right when we when we have

    finished developing a rank Choice voting module right doesn't have to be in a

    real election we would like you to test it and go through your procedures and give us feedback that that could be the

    you know the ass so it may may not result in a money ask it could be

    there's no question it probably be some kind of resource asked but it may not be that hard for the Department to meet and

    that's I think what vice president Jon is asking for is let's find out you know who who might be options right and are

    there any that are worth throwing some resources at whether it be people resources or time resources

    or maybe some money even to help them get across the finish line so we have options because it's in our interest to

    develop these options uh at a very in a cost-effective way right so let's find

    out who's a candidate thanks commissioner d h

    commissioner oh were you gonna say something no okay commissioner Hayden Crowley um I can't add much to

    commissioner dy I think she was articulate in what she had to say I did go through this uh very issue with the

    city on a Drupal platform for website and they had screened a number of

    different vendors to qualify them for um working on Drupal based new websites for

    the city and I when I did this uh for my previous employer with the city I had to

    uh interview from a pre-qualified list of say 20 vendors who had met certain

    qualifications and then were approved but it was interesting because at the end of that I think for there's a

    committee now I think the thing that's missing from this entire conversation is the level of bureaucracy that's involved

    in all of this it's not as simple thing as director Arn sending a a query out

    and I think when he talks about resources we need to be mindful that it

    involves multiple departments Department of Contracting I mean lots of different departments so what we think is a simple

    letter is is never ever simple ever trust me but it does happen all the time

    so um I just think that um I I think

    it's definitely worth this uh commission um moving forward because that seems

    like a good first step um it's more not in theory I'd say it's more of an

    exploratory um exercise to see what may be available out there but again um I

    think you have to be mindful of the levels of bureaucracy and it would probably involve um working with the DCA

    first or or or whatever to to figure out what departments need to check boxes on

    just even asking for information thank you commissioner

    Hayden crley commissioner ly thank you director Arts given you've

    said multiple times that resources and allocating resources for the Department

    to do something like a request for information for a um open- Source

    system and given that we have an election coming up in March and we have

    the presidential election um in November is it possible after the presidential

    election in November 2024 is that we don't have an election for a little while is that a Time time where

    potentially resources could be allocated to have this inquiry to kind of look

    at how we could do this and how the department could do it and what

    resources um would be needed um so is an off election time when there's there

    isn't election going on there's a little bit of time between because I appreciate what you're saying especially given the

    budget cuts that have been requested for each department in the city but is there a possibility of bringing a report to

    the elections commission um saying the president's

    election is over we've looked at what it would take to do this and here's what it would take so we could have a sense of

    what resources would be needed is that something that could be

    possible off Fe is always better certainly than the presidential cycle and this this is kind of growing from my

    perspective from a two sentence ass to an RFI which is even bigger um

    so yeah I I mean really off year is always better to start investigating and

    and thinking about this uh and you know I'm not against open source I just uh I

    know that's the perception uh from certain people but it's I I from my

    perspective I know once whatever we issue there's going to be a expectation that something is going to happen next there's something and that's I get that

    that's that's how it goes uh but not having to go through that during the presidential cycle definitely would be

    better than it would be better to for more advantageous I think for everyone considerer not to have the presidential

    Cycles facing us going through all this um and also from my understanding voting Works was planning getting certified in

    California they said originally 2022 I believe and then I don't know where they stand now so potentially within a year's

    time you're going have a a voting system in California that's open sourced and that's that's approved by Secretary of

    State's office so I don't it might kind of solve a problem for everybody I right but but if that isn't the case just just

    for clarification I'm not saying you create the the request for information

    just let us know what would it what are the resources what would it take for your department to be able to do that R

    I'm saying yeah I have to write it I me I mean the RFI would just take time writing to to do that

    that's why I kind of like the two sentence policy foror better uh that

    makes sense yeah yeah okay and then I mean then we right just coate it and

    send to the commission you guys could have the information that way um I'm I'm

    sorry maybe I'm I'm tired I I guess what I'm saying is I'm not saying that you

    should do an RFI I'm saying you let us know because you've said multiple times

    there's a lot of resources you you don't want to or I had the indication you don't want to put too

    much of the city's resources into doing an RFI and so what I'm saying is letting

    us know what it what would it take for you to be able to do what Chris is

    saying which is essentially an RFI so I'm not saying do it but to say after

    the election the presidential election here's what it would take for us to put this to to make this happen here are the

    steps here's the pathway I would need X number of employees X number of things

    is that something you would be amable to after the presidential election I want to be clear about that it'd be

    better okay yeah and when I mentioned resources not so much about the

    whatever's issued it's more if what the ask would be uh from the department and

    my concern just from past experience I this can't be the issue for the Department especially now and that's

    sort of How It's been in the past no matter where we are in the this has been the issue uh so if it's going to be

    potentially be the issue for the Department it's better to have this happen in off cycle than during the presidential Cycles okay thank

    you and where is actually I don't know do you know where voting works is on their system because they're certified

    in California I'm talking to commissioner

    jonic can I ask my question oh yeah you can just go ahead vice president jonic I just assume I didn't I assumed that you

    would answer that yeah yeah so I do want to reply to um commissioner L's comment

    but yeah director my understanding from voting works right now they are not

    have not prioritized California they're they're prioritizing jurisdictions where

    there is um active interest and willingness to work with them and collaborate with them

    so I think I I don't think they're going to partner with they're not planning on

    partnering with us unless they see some interest from San Francisco so

    um I would say that right now they're not they're not doing anything in California unless we would take some

    kind of a step to show them that we want to partner with them so

    um which I think sending out some doing some kind of Outreach like would would

    provide them an opening to partner again but um I think my understanding is that

    you know San Francisco would need to kind of take the first step on that um just on commissioner LOL on on

    your comment um yeah I think an RFI is much more work

    and I think um I think I think we wanted to avoid asking

    the department to do n RFI because it was more work and um I think

    legally um the the DCA um when I was working on

    this document the dca's had said that you know we can't ask the department to do NY so I I would my preference and I

    think in our document our preference was to do something that was not did not

    involve the work of an RFI to allow you to do it um you know easily and

    quickly so and I I think even the the email could just say explicitly you know

    this is not a commitment that we will we are not committing to acting on this

    information you know act on this information if if that would make you feel more comfortable you know one of your

    concerns was that it might be viewed as a commitment but I would I mean if if the

    department was going to wait until till next year to um do this it

    would I think it would really um we would lose a lot of time to

    um you know we we would lose a full year on on um preparing for what we could do

    with that

    information but I I do I do think that an email could be it could just be a few

    paragraphs and not a couple sentences I think it could be a few paragraphs but um until the department

    signals to organizations that it it is interested in doing something I don't

    think I don't think anything's going to

    happen commissioner loli I have a question for the ca is an

    email that um vice president jonik is

    suggesting if that were to be sent to um open source organizations does that

    legally bind the department by inquiring and

    saying we we would like more information about your system what you need for

    certification um vice president janic help me with the language like basically what you're asking to go into this

    email that could theoretically be sent does that bind the department by

    doing that good evening Commissioners Deputy City attorney Brad russie that what I understand of what's been

    discussed about that request for information it wouldn't find the department to make any kind of purchase

    um we would probably want to review how this is set up to make sure there aren't any violations of competitive bidding

    requirements in the future for example giving certain vendors a preference or

    not equal access it has to be open to everyone like so to the extent the

    department started working with one vendor and not others there could be issues with competitive bidding I know that's come up in other context so we

    just have to make sure we follow the proper process and we're happy to work with the Department on that if this moves forward thank you

    so so I'm not I'm not sure um really how to proceed like I mean director based on

    this conversation are you you going to think about it more or

    um um or do you have more to say based on

    what what has been said today or um I I I mean I think part of this policy part is the

    commission does want this you know issue to move forward and this has been this

    has been going back 16 years now so um you know we're trying our best to

    find ways that it to move it forward and if you have um

    you know maybe variations on what we're suggesting I think we would be we would

    love to hear that too you know I think we're we're doing our best um but if you

    have other ideas you know I think um I think we're open to you know

    collaborating together on this issue but we we we don't want this to be

    any kind of a commitment we just wanted to get information so to inform you

    know the next steps

    basically yeah so um I mean would it help if if

    um you know I or the the commission were to draft an email that would um you know

    be the few paragraphs and then you could look at it if you didn't have time to draft the email would that help you

    or I'll draft the email I can share with the deputy attorney's or state attorney's office um and then kind of go

    from there okay that would be great I think that would be very appreciated

    um okay

    so um

    I there was one there was one related issue that I wanted to um mention during this item because it's related and that

    was um during the retreat the commission had a discussion

    about the um the city's current voting system contract with

    dominion and because um originally your plan was to issue an RFP for a voting

    system in the spring and um one of the commission concerns was

    that um well informally during our discussions was that the um signing a new voting system

    contract could delay the um you know that could kind of lock the city into a

    a voting system at the exclusion of an open source voting system so we had a

    discussion about the possibility of the department extending that the city's current voting system contract with

    Dominion instead of issuing a new RFP and um during that Retreat I had shared

    with the commission that um in the past the department had signed a a voting

    system contract back in 2007 that was similar to the one that the department

    signed in 2018 or 19 and with that

    contract it was similar in that it was a four-year contract with two one-ear options to extend I'm I'm saying this

    for other people's benefit because you know it but after that the department went to the Board of Supervisors and had

    the board extend it twice beyond that original um you know was originally stated in the

    contract and is there anything that prevents would prevent the department from doing something similar to that

    with our current voting system contract asking the board to extend it

    beyond the original six years well I think one is does do we

    want the same same contract and for the same terms I mean if you extend the current contract you're you're extending

    the current terms in in the current costs so I I think we have to consider

    what that means I don't have an answer right now for that okay but but legally

    it's a possibility though is that I'll leave it to to Deputy sign uh

    okay proceed to discuss that um but it's fine I'm not going to I didn't come here

    today to talk about contracts and I wouldn't do that in a public session so

    uh certainly we can think about is that is that the the commission's formal uh

    recommendation then no this is a discussion that we had and I think this is a it's a question

    um that we had discussed during the retreat so

    um and it's related to the open source policy priority which is why I'm asking it today but um I mean I'll I'll just

    ask today just to kind of move the

    discussion forward from the commission's perspective but DC RI um like legally is it an option for

    the Department to I I understand there's choices about whether it makes the most sense but like legally can would it

    would one option be for the Department to extend the the city's current contract with Dominion if it went to the

    Board of Supervisors commissioner I haven't examine that contract with respect to

    this question I mean generally the board has the authority to pass an ordinance and wave different things and sorry

    would you mind talking into the sure generally the board would have authority to by ordinance wave competitive bidding

    if that's an issue or um other legal requirements that are not um

    imposed by the charter but with respect to this particular contract I I don't know the answer without looking at it

    more closely okay thank you yeah and the commission did not take any kind of a formal action on this we were just

    discussing it and with the idea that we wanted to keep this the city's options

    open for open source um well can I ask so if the if there is

    a opportunity to extend the contract is the Comm with the commission then formally recommend that be the case that

    that be the course of action well I mean I I would say informally the sense was that and I mean

    I can let other Commissioners speak for themselves but it seemed like commission were Commissioners were supportive of

    the idea of extending the existing contract and um I mean personally I

    would I would support that um because you know for the reasons I mentioned

    but I I would I would hope so and I would I would expect it personally

    but I go ahead commissioner D you look like you were going to say something yeah I I mean I think you know

    theoretically without looking at the details of the contract it was more about you know mitigating the city's

    risk while leaving the options open so you pointed out there are lots of reasons to engage in a new contract um

    but the concern was if a new contract locks Us in for another five years or whatever the you know multi- years that

    obviously limits the options for open source and so that was just a

    consideration we were thinking about is if there is an opportunity to you know

    work with an open- Source uh vendor who's close you know to getting certified we don't want to then sign a

    five-year contract and and lock ourselves in and not be able to Avail ourselves of that opportunity so of

    course it depends right so again we didn't we weren't looking specifically at the Contra we were just talking about

    how can we leave our options open so that we can move toward an open source system um without shooting ourselves in

    the foot because as you said we need a voting system right so we want to accommodate both and obviously you know

    what your thoughts are on on the specific contract and and you know maybe

    our opportunity to get concessions from the vendor um that matters

    too so this is um commissioner Stone I'm just going to jump in uh first vice

    president jonic if that's okay um I think there are two things I just want to say one in response to the director's

    question and two just a point of clarification

    also uh related to what commissioner D had said because there's some context

    that I also want to add for the public in this conversation which is that the director was is slated to issue an RFP

    in this spring for a new voting system I think that's something we just need to level set on to make sure the public is

    aware of what we're talking about um and these contracts are much longer than 5

    years um and I think the concern was that if let's say an open source

    system were to be able to be certified in the next 2 years 3 years four years

    that if we were to commit to a new a fresh contract that then we would be

    locked in for upwards of 10 years potentially or nine years you know depending on how we work through that

    process um knowing the city's requirements around 10year contracts so

    but these contracts with voting systems like Dominion are very are long and I

    think that was the expressed concern um and then the second piece of that is to

    answer is related but also to answer to the the director's question about if

    this is the commission's policy we had talked about it for that exact for what

    I just described we knew that you were going to issue an RFP in the spring that

    meaning in the next you know few months in the midst of already a crazy election

    year knowing that you were already going to do that and that perhaps there might

    be movement toward an open source system in California that could get certified

    wanting to see if there was an option to extend and that with a little asterisk

    our existing contract so that we wouldn't have to go out to bid and could keep marching on with uh throughout this

    election cycle and you know revisit this again in a year or two uh the reason I

    say asterisk is that the extens the length of extension has also not been

    discussed in this moment I think that needs to be made clear if we're going to answer the director's question about if

    that's our policy uh you know what would that mean would is it our stance that we

    would want the extension to be two years

    with option and then revisit in two years you know what does that look like because ultimately the director will

    have if this is the route he goes he will also have to go to the Board of Supervisors to do this and so I think

    it's important for us to be very clear on what we mean when we say extension and

    why um yes vice president Jon yeah and I just wanted to link this back to

    something earlier in the conversation which is you know talking about how much work in RFI is like an RFP is even even

    more work and so I think you know this could potentially save you some time if

    you're able to avoid the whole rigal of writing an RFP and then doing that whole bidding bidding

    process so um it could it could potentially be um you know a timesaver

    as well for you and I I think that yeah if you had the you know with if the

    commission was supporting this approach and um you went to the board I'm confident that

    it would it would sail through you know this isn't something that you'd be doing on your own um you know assuming the

    commission were to adopt a policy supporting that so um yeah I mean it

    could it could save you some time to go that

    approach is that of interest to you like would you want the commission to take a

    position on that

    yeah I think it'd be good I mean because in the past yeah things can turn pretty

    quickly on these contracts with with voting system vendors at the commission by the commission so I think it makes

    sense it would be good policy good approach by the commission to actually put forward they would support uh and

    they can even of course uh clarify that the support of a contract potential contract extension is really also in

    support of the policy to uh bring an open source system eventually into San Franco Isco that way it's not just you

    know John AR against open source hang out to Dominion you know so I I think

    that I think it would be a good idea and a good approach I so thank you if if that's what you're offering I I accept

    yeah well and also if and I know you don't want to get into the contract in full public and so if you can't answer

    this at this time totally understood but would you want to extend the contract as

    existing or would you rather move forward with your plans and again again if that's not something you want to

    answer in Open Session I completely respect that and understand why yeah I don't think I'm at this point ready to

    comment on contract yeah because I just don't think the commission should make a policy until you until we know where you

    stand like I don't think that we should I think we should support you in what you want to do and

    not you know adopt a policy that is in conflict with that I think that would be a problem so I appreciate happy to talk

    about it offline if that's better and I don't know if it has to be a policy if it even was just you know a resol I

    don't whatever you know so ceremonial

    yeah commissioner D yeah so you know I I think it would be good to agendize this

    next for the next month and um and maybe U have a you know a more in-depth

    conversation about it like what can we do uh consistent with the open source

    voting systems priority in step with this because you know to me this is it

    goes hand inand like I said we're trying to mitigate risk for the Department make sure the city has a solid voting system

    at the same time we don't want to cut off our notes to spite our face here we want to want to make sure we're developing these other options because

    otherwise you know we don't want to be stuck in an old contract for other either right so I think um we would love

    your thoughts on that you know sending out an email what just our idea if you have other ideas on how can we move

    things forward to continue developing viable options on the open source side

    you know and then the commission can support you know passing a resolution or whatever we need to do to make sure you

    have the support you need when you go before the board so that there's an understanding of why we're doing

    this I think you know have a few weeks to think about it and prepare something for next meeting for a discussion and we

    could probably have it in closed session if necessary

    right um I'm just looking at the time uh Vice President jonic are there

    other items thank you commissioner are there other items vice president jonic on your on this policy priority that you

    wanted to raise today okay any other commissioner have

    comments they'd like to make concerns observations before we move to public

    comment okay let's thank you for that thank you for the discussion um let's

    move to public

    comment there are no hands raised okay so that will close out

    agenda item number six thank you to the director you're good to go um we will

    now move to agenda item number five Commissioners reports discussion and possible action on Commissioners reports

    for topics not covered by another item on this agenda meetings with public officials oversight and observation

    activities but long range planning for the commission activities in areas of proposed study legislation ex elections

    others sorry I just got distracted because I realized there was one thing I wanted to mention before the end of that

    agenda item um hold on one second if I can find My

    Notes apologies it'll be very quick so uh just to Circle back on something

    about the voter registration policy priority we'll plan to agendize these as commissioner D had suggested I did want

    to mention uh commissioner Parker brought up the questions for the director which I had shared with him um

    and one of the things that you talked about I think one and two but number three was also adding links to our

    signature um I talked about the website and so uh also we will we should all

    plan to uh accommodate that and put items these links uh and happy to send

    an email reminder to folks to add them to your email signature as well um so I just wanted to elevate that very very

    small thing apologies let's go back to agenda item number five Commissioners reports um and I am actually going to

    first hand it over to commissioner Hayden Crowley thank you president Stone um I

    need to let everybody know that I just uh recently accepted a new position with the San Francisco Public Utilities

    Commission which requires my full-time commitment and as you all know the city

    Charter mandates that no member of the San Francisco elections commission may hold any employment with the city and

    county so in accordance with the requirement I am resigning from my position as an elections commissioner

    effective this Saturday January 20th when I begin my new position with the Public Utilities Commission so I just

    want to thank everybody here um I've gained incredible valuable insights

    working with all of you and collaborating with you I have tremendous respect for each and every one of you I

    have learned so much I I really have um I've been humbled and I've been equally

    excited and thrilled by all of the progress that has been made um my first Commission meeting was

    mindblowing but we got over that and I really feel that I've uh

    developed wonderful relationships with my colleagues I only have great things to say about all of you so thank you so

    much and I wish director ARS had stayed to though I'm very I've just always held

    him in high regard for operating free fair and functional elections and I think that we've seen evidence of that

    once again again in his director's report um and that is the mission of the elections commission and I also want to

    call out our uh commission secretary who we fought so hard to get on board here

    Marissa Davis and Marissa am I pronouncing that correctly yes uh

    president Stone worked so hard to bring you on board it was her mandate along

    with all of the different processes that she's brought to this commission which have made these meetings run so

    incredibly smoothly and I just we just owe an incredible debt of thanks to her

    and thank you for the wonderful time that I've had on this commission to you and to vice president jeronic and I

    really do want to call you all out commissioner Parker commissioner loli commissioner D and commissioner bernholz

    as well thank you so much for being wonderful wonderful colleagues and I

    will treasure my time with you and my memories thank you commissioner Hayden

    Crowley I think I I won't try and speak for everyone I'll speak for myself but I think the it is a huge loss it has been

    a complete privilege to work with you and I think you've brought great perspective I think we've all grown so

    much as a body in the last year I feel really proud of that and I also think um

    I I've seen each of us grow and learn in many ways and I certainly feel that you

    have contributed tremendously to that so thank you so much thank you um even when you were very tired

    sometimes we all we all got through it so um it's a huge huge loss and uh we

    will do our best to try and carry on your uh perspective and hopefully uh

    someone who fills your shoes has your knowledge and uh particularly your

    understanding of this city and the things that are important to this city how the city operates the bureaucracy

    that is involved um I think you have brought so much important perspective as well so thank you commissioner Hayden

    Crowley commissioner Lei well

    congratulations um and I just want to say that what I appreciate the most

    about you commissioner Hayden Crowley is keeping

    us with our feet on the ground and remembering that there are processes procedures and

    that money is what's often needed for things we want to do so I really appreciate

    that practical um knowledge that you brought to many of our discussions and you will

    be missed and I hope um this is means an opportunity for coffee or lunch um at

    some point but thank you very much for your service thank

    you okay thank you I will share just a

    couple of quick other things bit or sweet um but uh I wanted to talk a

    little bit about the the um meeting schedule over the coming weeks so as the

    commission is aware we have to do two budget reviews the uh prior to the department

    submitting its final budget for to them to the mayor's office for their review

    and consideration and those meetings need to be no less than 15 days apart the tricky

    piece of that is that the director we will not be able to begin reviewing that budget from the director until January

    29th he is going to submit it the Friday before which means unless someone is wanting to work on a weekend we will not

    be able to review it until uh January 29th and then we must submit it by

    and I actually I wanted to ask TCA russie one point of clarification I know we already talked about this previously

    but I just wanted to confirm that we needed to submit it by the for by the

    15th because I believe I had the 14th written down and then then I also had

    the 15th can you confirm it's the 15th and not the 14th the code provides that the last day for the commission to

    approve it or yeah prove it would be the 15th of February 15th thank you okay so

    we need to our first review January 29th 30th 31st and then the second review is

    basically the the February 14th or February 15th now the important piece of

    this is that the commission's regular meeting does not fall within either of

    those dates so my proposal is that we hold a boek special boek meeting on

    January 29th 30th or 31st and then now this is we can discuss this um but

    move our regular February meeting which is currently slated for February 21st to

    the 14th or the 15th secretary Davis has already done the work to uh ensure that

    we can have a room available for these two different slots uh vice president

    jonic has agreed to support the special boek meeting I also had support um from uh

    commissioner Parker who said that she could support the boek um if other folks have uh conflicts on the other dates and

    would prefer to take BC we can also swap around as well um the idea is to do this

    in the most painless way possible um so I guess let's start by saying are folks

    able to accommodate moving the February regular meeting from the 21st to the 14th or the 15th um

    and I think just a head nod would be great um really we need a quorum okay I

    see commissioner bolz has a thumbs up our folks and I also want to add I know

    that scheduling is very frustrating because we do these you know we

    anticipate that our meetings will be the third Wednesday of every month so but this the budget process does happen you

    know once a year so um hopefully this will be the only time yes commissioner

    laosi your your question is about the 15th or the 14th and not the 29th 30th

    or 31st yeah let's start with the febru the February meeting

    yep commissioner Parker um I let president Stone know

    this already um I will be out of town on the 14th 15th and not available those days which is fine if everybody if

    there's a quorum that's fine um which so I just won't be here those days thank

    you commissioner Parker yes that's that was one consideration knowing that commissioner Hayden Crowley will uh not

    be on the commission and the potential for a vacancy uh at least one vacancy at

    that time that the priority is really ensuring that we have Quorum so um we

    will be at that point we with commission Parker's absence it would

    be there would be five of us so yes go ahead oh yes I just wanted to correct

    myself I'm glad you asked that question because I looked back at the code it's actually February 14th I'm sorry no no

    I'm so glad between 15 days that have to be between the two meetings and the

    thank you thank you for double checking no problem um I so glad to know um

    because we can decide it here and now so okay scratch that and who can do

    February 14th um commissioner bernh hols can accommodate commissioner

    D okay vice president jonic um no problem okay and really we need a quorum

    um otherwise I think we would probably have to delegate to a special Committee of some kind wonderful we'll all spend

    val day together um make sure you bring your Valentine's for the director I ask

    yes vice president introd so DC Russi can can the meetings be reversed can it

    be the commission meeting first and then the committee meeting

    or the the the purpose of the first meeting is for um the public to provide

    input on the budget priorities and then the second meeting is when the commission actually proves the budget

    and the commit the whole commission needs to consider the budget okay so okay so so we will move

    forward with moving the February 21st meeting we are going to cancel that

    meeting or rather push it up a week to Wednesday

    February 14th um that will be our new February

    meeting we will still move forward as if it's a regular meeting but the budget will be the primary agenda item for that

    meeting and then do does anyone have a

    burning passion to participate in the BC meeting as an alternate for commissioner Parker well

    commissioner Parker perhaps you want to join that BC one since you can't make the I mean I won't speak for you but you

    might want to have be able to review the budget um but uh perhaps in lie of

    myself or vice president jonic does anyone you're not all dying to me meet

    again February um okay um yes commissioner L

    see I'm sorry I just got a little confused there um the BC meeting is

    sorry the BC meeting is going to be before the meeting on the 14th correct it would be January 29th 31st yeah 29th

    or 31st okay I absolutely cannot meet on the 31st I

    have five 100 people coming to my school for an event and I have to be there

    okay well I think let's keep it so it

    will be a special boek meeting of commissioner Parker vice president jonic and myself on either the 29th or the 30

    31st we will oh yes DCA

    Rie it needs to be 15 days so the 29th yep okay so it will be January Monday

    January 29th I'm glad you're keeping us honest um it will be Monday January 29th

    um it also helps you have your answer immediately secretary Davis so the BC meeting to review the budget the first

    review will be Monday January 29th and the second will be at the full

    commission meeting that will be moved from the 21st to the 14th of February is

    that clear thank you everyone for accommodating that um I really

    appreciate it um I did have one other or I had two

    other items um which I actually one of them I meant to

    mention after commissioner Hayden Crow's announcement uh which was just that um

    uh uh DCA huling Delan how do I say her last name that she's no longer Staffing

    the commission um it will be just DCA russie and DCA Flores uh going forward

    and then uh the last piece is we had talked about on the I don't remember

    when we talked about this but doing a uh after we had done the warehouse tour

    during the retreat in December we will be doing a or we had talked about doing

    the same thing for the vote Center in City Hall and I spoke with the director about this and he proposed

    uh and he said we could do it in March I thought it would be more fun for us to do it ahead of November and so uh just

    everyone kind of this is a ways away but keep in the back of your head we're one of the dates we would do would be

    November 1st 2nd or 4th and we would get to do you know the full it would be in the afternoon probably and the director

    would show us the whole kind of um process I think there were a lot of

    questions when we did the warehouse tour around uh around vote by mail ballots

    and and uh the process of those and so now we'll get the the ability to see

    that um at the vote Center in City Hall so just keep that on your radar November

    1st 2 or 4th yes commissioner ly oh

    okay correct yes um and I'll bring that up again in the

    future um yes good that is it are there other

    commissioner reports yes vice president J thank you

    president Stone just one thing to mention um one of my action items from

    the last meeting was to just incorporate the revisions from the annual report that we discussed and I was I was

    intending to do that today um because I wanted to finish it before the meeting

    but I wasn't able to get to it but um I should be able to do it in the next few

    days and um commissioner Hayden cley I did receive your email you had suggested some wording to incorporate like we

    discussed at the meeting so I have that so um I just wanted to give people an

    update on that so thank you thank

    you okay let's move to public comment on

    agenda item number five commissioner reports oh were you GNA say something commissioner do you want me

    to do you want me to give an update on it um yeah uh vice president J just

    asked about the registration report uh so uh Michelle and I spent uh most of

    the early holidays uh incorporating all of your comments and

    revisions um and then flipped it over to uh president Stone who had a couple of

    uh last suggestions which we're in the process of reviewing and it is also

    simultaneously under review or will be shortly under review by the

    dcas so uh and president Stone's already drafted a letter to go to the board so

    we just need to cross our eyes and Dot our teas and triple shoot some formatting issues um and and will be

    done um I don't know if anyone has a strong opinion uh commissioner Parker

    I've been debating whether we should have the appendices as a separate document or whether we should try to put

    it all in a single document assuming it's not too big if anyone has a strong opinion on

    that I I mean the commission voted to move forward as drafted with the

    specific yellow changes so I personally would propose that we not reopen the feedback on the report that's my

    personal feeling that's fine we'll go with single document then awesome thank you commissioner

    D let's move to public

    comment there are no public commenters quite a bunch

    today um okay thank you secretary Davis so we will now move to election of

    Commission Executive officers discussion and possible action to elect a new commission President and Vice President

    per commission bylaws Article 5 Section 1B the procedure will be as follows and I'm just going to read the full

    procedure the chair of the meeting will open nominations for president any commissioner who wishes to nominate a

    candidate will state the name of that person if that person agrees to run then that person is nominated when there are

    no further nominations the chair will close the nominations and call a roll call vote in which each commissioner

    shall State the name of the nominee for whom she or he is voting if a nominee

    receives four or more votes that person is elected president if no nominee receives four votes the commission may

    have further discussion and proceed to another vote this process shall repeat until one nominee has received four or

    more votes the same process will then be used to elect a vice president per the

    bylaws the term shall begin immediately at the conclusion of the meeting so with that we will open nomination for

    president commissioner Hayden Crowley I nominate

    president stone for another term to be president thank you commissioner aen

    growley oh I

    accept seconds and you don't have to second you can just nominate are there

    any other nominations

    well thanks um let's move to I appreciate that let's move to a roll call vote

    then before we go to vice president because we were going to do president

    then vice president Public public comment oh before we take any action

    okay so let's hold on public comment let's because we also do the need to do the nomination period for um the vice

    president I I think you could take public comment on the entire item once just before you take a vote on anything

    it should be before that okay um would folks like me to take public comment now or move to the

    nomination of the vice president now the lad yeah just do the next nomination oh

    okay you'd like to move to public comment now well the the agenda says

    to I'm Vice President should happen after the vote but

    okay okay I hear half and half public comment um let's just move to public

    comment there are no public commenters and we can always take public comment again after after vice president that's

    totally fine um okay let's secretary Davis will you call

    roll call vote for the um election of the president the executive officer of

    president president stone

    stone president Stone president

    Stone president's St president

    Stone president Stone president

    Stone wow thank you everyone certainly one of the less painful ones

    I've done since being on this body so I really appreciate that um uh let's move to nomination for vice

    president any nominations yes I'd like to nominate commissioner Parker okay

    thank you commissioner loli I'd like to nominate commissioner


    okay thank you commissioner Parker do you accept as

    well um yeah yeah thank you


    other we can move to public

    comment there are no public commenters

    okay um secretary Davis would you mind moving

    to the roll call vote for vice

    president president Stone

    Parker vice president jonic commissioner Parker commissioner burn holes

    commissioner Dy commissioner Dy

    I guess I vote for myself commissioner Hayden Crowley

    Parker commissioner Luli commissioner D commissioner

    Parker Parker okay

    one four for Parker and three for Dy okay thank you secretary Davis thank

    you secretary Dy thank you secretary or not secretary D and secretary Parker

    commissioner Parker thank you secretary Davis thank you commissioner D and thank

    you commissioner Parker I appreciate that um and I also would ask secretary D

    if you're open to also being the boek chair for the year as

    well we can discuss it offline if you would like I am not going to escape this am I

    I'm so sorry I'm off we can discuss it offline we discuss it offline okay well thank you I

    appreciate it everyone um and I know these are never easy um are there any

    other comments before we move to agenda item number

    eight okay agenda item that closes out agenda item

    number seven let's move to agenda item number eight agenda items for future meetings discussion and possible action

    regarding items for future

    agendas sorry vice president jonic yeah I know um one item that we had

    discussed maybe five or six months ago was the um the ballot label state law

    that you know Sisco could choose whether to opt in or out and especially since

    this um this election was just a two-card ballot like it seems like there would have been room to have it for this

    election so maybe it's something the commission could discuss a policy around the ballot

    labels and then um there was something else oh

    and I don't know president Stone if you think this is necessary but um perhaps

    an agenda item around formalizing the um the policy for sending letters to the appointing authorities ah for um around

    vacancies yes so I'd like to respond to both of those I that was actually a

    complete oversight I had meant to bring that up after um you can tell I'm a

    little all over the place here um but I mentor to bring that up after commissioner Hayden Crowley's

    announcement that uh I wanted to unfortunately that would mean us

    going back um but the commission had discussed the letter for that I believe

    we took action correct on that letter we did yeah I thought or was that just in

    vek no okay we'll have to go back but

    I okay Listen to I I couldn't recall if we had approved that as a commission or

    just in boek um but I wanted to get the commission's blessing to send that to uh

    the seats that will be vacant so I believe we already sent one to the board

    although I don't recall I don't remember if we did or did not um but then also to

    the mayor's office as well so uh what we given that we have our meeting sooner

    rather than later in February um I can add that to the agenda um and then I

    also wanted to and so thank you for bringing that up I I had that on my list and I just it was an oversight and then

    the ballot label I'm glad you brought that up um I have been in conversation with the director about this offline and

    actually if you look at his uh March report you'll see that there's already

    movement uh toward that so so the uh uh

    vice president jonic is speaking directly about uh ab14 16 which was

    including proponents and opponents on the ballots themselves names of

    proponents and opponents of ballot measures on the ballot themselves and there is concern about the number of

    ballot cards um there are many concerns about including this and this had been

    discussed at the commission back in

    October something like that yeah in the fall um and uh I had spoken with the

    director about it offline he is kind of working on a we've been working on a

    many different components of this that we plan to share with the commission uh it's just there have been too many other

    priorities uh that have kind of deprioritized this but yes I can speak I

    don't know if that can necessarily be as soon as February 14th um but yes in

    either February or March that needs to be something that is brought back up um

    and so oh what I was going to point to is in the March election plan on page um

    hold on a second just because I I did see someone from the League of Women Voters on as well who I think had asked

    about this um ah on page 17 of the March

    election plan it says ballots for all voters will include information on where voters can obtain information about

    proponents and opponents so that will be that is new um that is something in the

    March election plan even though there isn't going to necessarily be full transition to AB

    1416 um there is going to now be something on the ballot themselves that says the directs people to the voter

    information pamphlet where they can see uh who the proponents and oppon are so I

    just wanted to give everyone a little kind of preview of that but yes I will also um make sure that's included on the

    agenda as well commissioner Hayden Crowley thank

    you thank you president Stone um I don't know that this would be an agenda item

    but it is pertains to your processes my understanding is that when people leave

    the commission I've been advised that I have to file a form 700 for leaving the Vaca the commission and so I'm just

    reminding you uh commissioner vice president jonic um but then also to all the Commissioners I think that this we

    all uh we all have to do our form 700 just a reminder thanks yes I'm sure secretary

    Davis will be bothering all about all of us very soon about that um and then of

    course policy priorities will be agendized as well um per I think commissioner loli I think you are the

    one who mentioned that anyways it will be aend IED again anything

    else okay let's move to public

    comment no public commenters okay the time is now 9:02

    p.m. and the meeting is adjourned


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    Last updated February 22, 2024